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[Shrugging Khan]

I'm not really savvy about harpoons. The larger ones mounted on whaler ships are definitely chemically-explosively propelled (like, you know, in guns), but whether there's smaller ones that use for example a spring or other mechanical device...well, I don't know. They'd be similar in that they store previously inserted mechanical energy to propel the projectile, but otherwise I've no idea.

A crossbow is essentially a semi automatic bow, where as a harpoon gun is a gun specially designed to shoot a harpoon.

Atleast I think so?

I hate to disagree, but no on the first part (the second one is obviously right). "Semi-Auto" basically means the entire mechanism sets itself up for the next shot after firing one. The closest we'd come to that is the Chinese repeating crossbows, but those were actually more like manual action weapons than semi-automatics (think pump-, bolt- or lever-action rifles/shotguns). What the crossbow is, is single-shot, like simpler modern anti-material rifles and grenade launchers often are. The bow cannot be compared to any manner of gun since it relies entirely on the user, and not on complex mechanisms.

Edit: Scratch the part about the Chinese Repeater being manual-action. It can't be fully compared, since manual-action guns still use explosive propellant instead of mechanical force for propelling the projectile. Only the reloading mechanisms can be compared.

[atomicoctobot]

Has anyone done tests to see whether bows or crossbows will consistently come out on top in combat?

[Shrugging Khan]

Since the entire actions of firing either, as well as the stats of bolts and arrows are identical...no difference, is what I predict.

[Cannabust]

Has anyone done tests to see whether bows or crossbows will consistently come out on top in combat?

They don't come out on top Atomic, I've found bows and crossbows to be pretty weak, but at range will damage units, and that throwing is just as much an option in range (since you don't need to find arrows or bolts and you can just throw heads and weapons you find lying around.)

[ghosteh]

Harpoon guns are usually spring or compressed gas, and in DF I was under the impression that it was arrows vs bolts, not bows vs crossbows that made the differences to ranged combat

[Shrugging Khan]

Gas! Why didn't stupid me think of that?

Anyways, according to the wiki page both arrows and bolts are exactly identical in their combat performance. No difference whatsoever.

[Cannabust]

Gas! Why didn't stupid me think of that?

Anyways, according to the wiki page both arrows and bolts are exactly identical in their combat performance. No difference whatsoever.

I wonder if Toady ever did put in Harpoons, what form would they take? And expanding upon the high seas thread, could you have large whaler harpoons on board your ship?

[Knigel]

@Shrugging Khan: Alright, I'm going to try and make a realistic way for bows and crossbows to function, gameplay-wise, based on that information.

PRS = power, range, and speed

Both:

• PRS of projectiles are based on strength and size of user.
• The maximum PRS of projectiles from a given weapon have a cap based on the weapon's maximum drawn strength.
• Reload speed is based on both strength and agility.
• Accuracy is based on skill and quality of the weapon and projectile.

Bows:

• PRS cap can't very high.
• Increasing PRS takes a greater amount of strength.
• Strength decides maximum accuracy.
• Weapon quality is less important.
• Reload command would pull out an arrow and hold in the bow, but wouldn't draw it.
• Have a (slightly) higher net rate of fire.
• There is a short period between the use of the [f]ire command and the arrow launching as it needs to be drawn and released.

Crossbows:

• PRS cap can be fairly high.
• Increasing PRS doesn't take very much strength.
• Strength has no affect on accuracy.
• Weapon quality is more important.
• Reload command would put bolt on the sled and pull it taut.
• Rate of fire is slightly lower.
• Fire command launches bolt immediately.

I wonder if Toady ever did put in Harpoons, what form would they take? And expanding upon the high seas thread, could you have large whaler harpoons on board your ship?

A harpoon itself is just a javelin with a notch put in it to make it still better and a rope on the end.

As for a harpoon gun/speargun, those are far too advanced for Dwarf Fortress, and aren't really necessary when we already have ballistas.

[ghosteh]

A Harpoon gun would no different to a crossbow or bow In game terms, it would just be another kind of blowgun with its own ammunition

[kulik]

What about automatic crossbows?  Van Helsing style! 

...just kidding.


...do i? 

[Shrugging Khan]

Repeating Crossbows aren't impossible. They have nonexistant accuracy, poor range and low strength, but hold up to 10 bolts and can be fired faster than a bow. The chinese ones, that is.

[Malaclypse]

Personally, I feel like simply sticking a reload speed token in for ranged weapons would entirely fix them. The essential differences between bows and crossbows would then be entirely possible to replicate using the tokens available. Altering the way the game handles the ranged weapons further than that would only yield dubious benefits and would take a good deal more coding.

[Javarock]

Personally, I feel like simply sticking a reload speed token in for ranged weapons would entirely fix them. The essential differences between bows and crossbows would then be entirely possible to replicate using the tokens available. Altering the way the game handles the ranged weapons further than that would only yield dubious benefits and would take a good deal more coding.

Besides, If you also mod in a new weapon (Such as my gun sword) you would be able to edit there times they require. But I also think the whole "r" To reload would be benifical as well.

[Knigel]

Besides, If you also mod in a new weapon (Such as my gun sword) you would be able to edit there times they require. But I also think the whole "r" To reload would be benifical as well.

Not that it matters that much, but [r] is already taken, so I think [v] might be the best for reload (it's the closest to the [f]ire command which isn't taken, either in capital or lower case).

Of course this just for defaults.

[FGK dwarf]

Repeating Crossbows aren't impossible. They have nonexistant accuracy, poor range and low strength, but hold up to 10 bolts and can be fired faster than a bow. The chinese ones, that is.

And the Greeks apparently had a repeating ballista:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybolos