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[TicklemeFeather]

Just poke out there eyes and walk away

[GrizzlyAdamz]

I'll put this here in case people don't check previous pages.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Doing some research !!Science!!, 10v10 dwarfs, 5 paces apart, with steel picks vs steel halberds and no skill, (can't give them skill for mining, so it wouldn't be fair). I allow 20 seconds irl after the battle for dwarves to bleed out.
Unarmored:
Trial 1: 3 Minerdwarfs surviving
Trial 2: 9 Minerdwarfs surviving
Trial 3: 4 Minerdwarfs surviving
Armored (Full bronze, no shields):
Trial 1: 9 Minerdwarfs surviving
Trial 2: 3 Minerdwarfs surviving
Trial 3: 4 Minerdwarfs surviving
Armored (Full steel, no shields):
Trial 1: 10 Minerdwarfs surviving, 1 Axedwarf surviving...(they refused to attack him, and he is missing.....eyes, ears, cheeks, a nose, both arms, most of his teeth, and everything else is bruised/fractured...dunno why they don't finish him off)(actually, I took control of the poor guy, and they were just wailing away at him w/o moving. He bled to death eventually.)
Trial 2: 9 Minerdwarfs surviving
Trial 3: 7 Minerdwarfs surviving

Exact armor given:
breastplate
helm
gauntlet
gauntlet
high boot
high boot
greaves

[Shrugging Khan]

SIZE, ADAMZ! SIZE!

[Mechanist]

I dont know if is a known fact, but i've discovered this playing genesis mod long time ago, and it works in vanilla:

get a lot of shields (no needed skill) *r*emove them from backpacks

shields are now in your hands (all of them)

you became the ultimate tank

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Aight, for humans, same setup,
Unarmored:
Trial 1: 5 Axemen surviving
Trial 2: 6 Miners surviving
Trial 3: 8 Miners surviving
Trial 4: 4 Miners surviving
Strange. I can't account for trial 1.
Trial 5: 4 Miners surviving
:/
Armored (full bronze, no shields):
Trial 1: 4 Miners surviving
Trial 2: 6 Miners surviving
Trial 3: 6 Miners surviving
Armored (full steel, no shields):
Trial 1: 10 Miners surviving
Trial 2: 11 Miners surviving (fucked up, this one was 11v11)
Trial 3: 8 Miners surviving

Sorry baby, no dice :3

[Sheb]

And what about pick vs. whip?

[GrizzlyAdamz]

"10v10 duel, right now, miners vs whips. How much armor, what kind of whips would you prefer? We're using steel picks."
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=71274.msg1739475#msg1739475
you too.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Alright, humans, 10v10, no skills, steel picks vs silver whips, 5 spaces apart
Unarmored:
Trial 1: 1 Miner surviving
Trial 2: 5 Lashers surviving
Trial 3: 7 Miners surviving
Even much?
Armored (full bronze, no shields):
Trial 1: 5 Lashers surviving, (I gotta note, hindsight, every single one of them were on the ground and multiple reds/missings
Trial 2: 6 Miners surviving, (all on foot)
Trial 3: 8 Miners surviving, (6 on foot)
Armored (full steel, no shields):
Trial 1: 10 Lashers surviving
Trial 2: 9 Lashers surviving
Trial 3: 10 Lashers surviving
That, was quite the Coup de main they had in that last round.
Good bout, I must say, they're even. But, that is excluding possible alternate results with either an adamantite, or silver, pick, (whichever is it's ultimate material, if one scores better than steel w/ picks)

[Kobold Troubadour]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Alright, humans, 10v10, no skills, steel picks vs silver whips, 5 spaces apart
Unarmored:
Trial 1: 1 Miner surviving
Trial 2: 5 Lashers surviving
Trial 3: 7 Miners surviving
Even much?
Armored (full bronze, no shields):
Trial 1: 5 Lashers surviving, (I gotta note, hindsight, every single one of them were on the ground and multiple reds/missings
Trial 2: 6 Miners surviving, (all on foot)
Trial 3: 8 Miners surviving, (6 on foot)
Armored (full steel, no shields):
Trial 1: 10 Lashers surviving
Trial 2: 9 Lashers surviving
Trial 3: 10 Lashers surviving
That, was quite the Coup de main they had in that last round.
Good bout, I must say, they're even. But, that is excluding possible alternate results with either an adamantite, or silver, pick, (whichever is it's ultimate material, if one scores better than steel w/ picks)

So through the scientific method, we could conclude that dual wielding picks & whips can bring you a can of whoop-ass in most situation...even more if you tie your pick at the end of your whip! Supersonic picks!

Thank you !SCIENCE!

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Exactly.

[Greiger]

Another random tip.  Fight near your buddies.

When you start getting large numbers of companions going off by yourself during a big melee (like bandit attacks) is just asking to get killed.  It is generally better to aid a larger group of your companions than a smaller one.  Because if your group begins getting overwhelmed you end up in a 5v1 situation, and even if your companions did have any desire to stop what they are doing to save you in combat turns it takes a very long time for one to move to your aid.

Also when moving into a site where you expect archers move slowly enough for your companions to keep up.  If you do start taking fire you can let your companions charge in ahead of you.  Archers generally seem to try to target their nearest target.  Try to make sure that isn't you.  Sneaking to the site helps with this nicely.  You move slow enough for your companions to keep up, and you are unlikely to become the target.

[sobriquet]

(originally posted in 'On Aimed Attacks' thread.  moved here for relevance)

Also related to beating opponents better than you, esp early on-

if your mass/size and/or muscle are bigger'n your foe, but you can't get through his guard and he's slicing you up (let's say, for instance, a starting min/maxed swordsman peasant vs. a goblin outlaw boss)--

KNOCK HIM THE FUCK DOWN.

Set your default combat settings (Shift-C) to 'charge' and you may well knock him/her down with your strike even if it blocks.

Also re: grabbing/choking out--- don't have a solid grip on that throat?  what's that? he keeps stabbing you, and that's bad?

1. grab the weapon. don't drop it.  throw it away or back up and hurl it at him.  in 31.18, enemies won't pick it up unless they happens to be in the same square.

Now let's see how his punching skill is.

2. grab his head with one of your hands and gouge his eyes out.  after I blind an opponent, i can disengage and sneak back up on him from behind and choke him out there.  then kick to the head til' dead.  they don't come after you if blind and you get a few steps away.

Thanks everybody!  I'll be here all night.

[Ktalyx]

With my peasant human outsider, I've noticed that daggers can really be a good weapon sometimes.
With my copper dagger and adept knife user skill, I could kill any at the size of a human with only one strike to the lower body. The only creatures who caused me trouble were bogeymen on a flat plain

[Uzu Bash]

Shield use is still king, with the correct stats to back it up. Wrestling holds can still wreck you through armor use, and dodging was dangerous enough before with the risk of jumping off ledges, but now can also set you up for a back attack. Shield use requires agility for speed and endurance for the amount of action per round. Two handed weapons may be mighty (ymmv) and dual wielding is no doubt cool, but turtling is the most reliable defense.

[Thatdude]

With my peasant human outsider, I've noticed that daggers can really be a good weapon sometimes.
With my copper dagger and adept knife user skill, I could kill any at the size of a human with only one strike to the lower body. The only creatures who caused me trouble were bogeymen on a flat plain

That's because some research conducted in another thread found that the best piercing weapon was actually stabbing with a large dagger. They make strangely good anti-armour weapons.

Anyway, my view is that:
1. Wrestling is god in this version. Only bogymen, mega-beasts and weapon masters can wrestle back effectively. My favourite tactic 1 on 1 especially is to grab, throw then break my opponent's leg before coking him into unconsciousness. From there it's about 1-3 hits to finish from there.

2. While it feels stylish to kill someone by slitting their throat, it is actually very annoying to do as it seems both cloaks, robes and (leather at least) armour blocks attacks here (note, needs further testing). So I keep finding that I can only bruise the throat with my copper large dagger until these things have been removed. However, other edged weapons (swords, axes, heck even picks) can usually bypass this.

3. This needs proper testing but especially on bogymen aimed attacks hit a lot less. This is only personal experience but it seems to be very true.