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Author Topic: What's the best weapon to use?  (Read 25866 times)

GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2010, 07:41:09 pm »

Whips then? Give me a situation and I'll put it to the test. I postulate that picks are the end-all of all weapons, (though whips are nasty).
Oh, and halberds are multi-grasp. The pick users can have a shield as well, or rather, there isn't even a possibility of having a penalty while wielding both, but I didn't include this as it would skew the results.
The three situations I simulated are on even-ground, and isolate the weapon as the sole variable.
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Uzu Bash

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2010, 07:41:55 pm »

Can picks finish off a colossus? If so, I'd trade out the battleaxe for it.

In fort mode, mining does build a lot of physical attributes and the pick makes a deadly weapon. I watched a miner with no soldiering at all take out fully armored goblin warriors, and then after his legs and arm were broken from a fall, kill similarly injured but far more skilled warriors.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2010, 07:43:51 pm »

I'll run it through, what type of collossus, how many dwarfs, etc?

Can't find any golemns/collossi, but I can check against ettins/giants/etc.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 07:53:29 pm by GrizzlyAdamz »
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2010, 08:02:50 pm »

Dwarves are undersized for halberds. Repeat the experiment with humans.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2010, 11:31:10 pm »

Ahh, good point, I'll start right away.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2010, 12:26:05 am »

Aight, for humans, same setup,
Unarmored:
Trial 1: 5 Axemen surviving
Trial 2: 6 Miners surviving
Trial 3: 8 Miners surviving
Trial 4: 4 Miners surviving
Strange. I can't account for trial 1.
Trial 5: 4 Miners surviving
:/
Armored (full bronze, no shields):
Trial 1: 4 Miners surviving
Trial 2: 6 Miners surviving
Trial 3: 6 Miners surviving
Armored (full steel, no shields):
Trial 1: 10 Miners surviving
Trial 2: 11 Miners surviving (fucked up, this one was 11v11)
Trial 3: 8 Miners surviving

Sorry baby, no dice :3
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Raltay

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2010, 06:03:17 am »

Are hammers and maces (and whips btw) really as good as slashing/stabbing weapons? All my characters who started with hammer/mace/whip and shield performed a lot worse than chars starting with pikes/spears/swords/axes with(or without) shield (identical starting skill levels). With the latter, succesful opportunity attack (or aimed strike in general) usually ended with torn tendoms/motor nerver and various other internal damage. With hammers, it usually ends up bruising muscle, rarely shattering bone. Also, they seem totally inferior just by looking at the (default) raws:

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
[NAME:whip:whips]
[SIZE:100]
[SKILL:WHIP]
[TWO_HANDED:27500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:22500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:1:10:lash:lashes:NO_SUB:5000]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
[NAME:war hammer:war hammers]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10:200:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:2000]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
[NAME:short sword:short swords]
[SIZE:300]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[TWO_HANDED:37500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:32500]
[CAN_STONE]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:EDGE:20000:4000:slash:slashes:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK:EDGE:50:2000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:20000:4000:slap:slaps:flat:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:1000:strike:strikes:pommel:1000]

and on top of that:

Penetration size currently only matters for edged attacks.

I mean, WTH??? Even short sword has better blunt attacks than war hammer!

Am I missing some calculations that make hammers/whips on par with other weapons?

Oh and one more thing: many people here keep mentioning some scimitars, but they are not in the raws? Is it a weapon from a mod?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 06:09:42 am by Raltay »
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2010, 06:03:41 pm »

Whips are the only things that hold their own against picks. They're basically supersonic micro-hammers that ignore armor. As this !!SCIENCE!! shows,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

At unarmored, it's mostly luck as to who wins.
At slight armor, picks took the field, but likely by luck.
When armor material is on-par with the pick's material, the whip mops the floor with it as the pick is deflected and the whip strikes through and paralyzes with pain.
Whips and Picks are the most powerful weapons in a relative sense, but while whips disable fast, picks score kills.
Bronze Collossus vs Silver Whip = collossus disabled, but impossible to kill
Bronze Collossus vs Steel Axe = some hits but no kill shot
Bronze Collossus vs Steel Pick = kill shot

Oh, and here, you should like this:
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Weapon
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Uzu Bash

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2010, 06:46:30 pm »

Spears can't be underestimated, they do get a lot of lethal one-shots on unarmoured targets, even the biggest and toughest. Very effective on any beast.

The main drawback with whip is developing the skill, because they too easily inflict status ailments, during which you gain no exp while striking. High attributes, fighter skill, and a few lucky shots can offset this, but other weapons can become more effective at hitting and parrying sooner.
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Yoink

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2010, 08:44:41 pm »

Picks are silly. *frownyface* I'm not gonna use 'em just 'cause Grizzly likes them so much! :D
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Uzu Bash

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2010, 08:53:29 pm »

See what you did, Grizzly? Hype Aversion.
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Shinziril

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2010, 09:20:59 pm »

Crossposting my weapon research thread here. 
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 03:27:22 am »

What you call 'hype aversion' I call 'Spite', and it is a low, low road Mr. Yoink.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 03:40:20 am by GrizzlyAdamz »
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maanahr

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 04:09:04 am »

From how I've seen my adventurers perform so far, I think strength matters too when choosing a weapon. With halberds needing high strength to get good severs, whips some strength to get skull shattering blows, and picks working great even at low strength. If you get a clear shot at the head, whips and picks are usually one-hit kills.
I've been dumping points into untrainable stats though, so my physical stats are usually a lot lower than the average adventurer.
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GrizzlyAdamz

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Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2010, 04:12:25 am »

Well, before you do that, remember that all those untrainable skills are untrainable because you can't use them for anything yet. By the time those skills see use, your current dwarfs will either be abandoned, or broken by updates. Don't get caught up in the nitty-gritty 100% efficiency bit, is what I'm saying.
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