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Dwarf Fortress

Minecraft

Both

[tolkafox]

What? The time from the work was your time, not that of a number of simulated creatures. In DF, it's simple enough to watch a megaproject develop with little effort involved. Minecraft megaprojects give so much more satisfaction, both from the effort and in the results.

You are comparing doing a task yourself in a limitless environment to managing 50-200 creatures who need to eat/sleep/drink/take breaks/oh noes hide it's the goblinz. The argument is doomed to fail based on the sole premise of: Managers get payed and they get payed well. Managers pay is also derived from the simple formula $=(NC+c)l, where N is the number of people they are managing, C is the complexity of the task they are performing, c is the number of kittens/cats present, and l is the number of lunch breaks on any given day.

I like Minecraft outside of the fact that it's too blocky and doesn't offer enough freedom. In my opinion, runescape is more fun. Anyone who has ever played runescape will get that joke.

Dwarf fortress on the other hand is close to allowing players to play Minecraft inside itself with adventure mode. All you're missing is terrain manipulation. I think someone said it is possible to paint with water, but I've yet to try it out myself.

Also, we need to add dig dug to this list. World of Warcraft as well, since you can mine as a dwarf in it. Can't leave out Masters of Magic either, you can play as dwarves stealing from elves.

[RedWarrior0]

We need to add Delve Deeper and... like... Dig-Dug to the list. For variety.

Looks like someone beat you to that one.

Also, the point I was trying to make earlier is that when I do something, the gratification level is significantly higher than when I tell someone else to do it. Running a race is more satisfying then telling people how to run; this isn't saying DF isn't fun, it's just that the fun is more of a sadistic pleasure in addition to the management challenges.

[tolkafox]

Yes, dig dug was already mentioned, no, I don't believe the point of why dig dug was recommended was fully understood (not that you asked or noticed >.>). For the sake of everyone who can't take subtle hints, I will place the point that was trying to be made by that other person in bold letters.

Dig dug has nothing to do with dwarf fortress or minecraft, which in turn have little to do with each other outside of the fact that there is terrain and it can be manipulated on complex levels. I thought the World of Warcraft/Masters of Magic reference ground this in pretty thoroughly, but ah well.

Yes, but the gratification you are implying is in the case of building some grand feat of simple architecture all by yourself. We'll use a giant golden sack of balls as this achievement. In minecraft this is simple as it entails you spending hours digging down for the gold, then hauling it back up where you have to position the gold pieces in just the right order so that they resemble a sack of balls from afar. Horribly simple, horribly time consuming as well.

Now in dwarf fortress, I'm guessing I'll simplify it as I assume everyone here plays the game, the same applies with digging down to find gold but instead of you doing it you get to show dwarves where to dig, then you assign where the pieces go in just the right order so that they resemble a sack of balls from afar and wait for them to put it all together. Horribly simple task made complex by running a fortress, but not as time consuming.

Now lets look at my two golden standards for games: Cost and replay ability.

Minecraft is free for the simple version, but if you want the full experience you're going to have to shell out some monies. Dwarf fortress is completely free, although I've heard rumors that it'll cost you your soul in the future.

After you've got your golden sack of balls in Minecraft, there isn't much else you can do with it outside of blowing it up or jumping up and down on it. Once you've built your golden sack of balls that's about it, you celebrate the six hours it took you to do so, jump up and down on it for an hour, then blow it up and try to find something else to do.

Once you've got your golden sack of balls in dwarf fortress, you're left wondering what to do with the other five hours of your life that aren't being gratified. You then set up a goblin arena on top of the balls, and laugh every time a poor goblin dodges off the ballsack and explodes some 15 Z levels down. Forcing elves to trade on top of the balls is bonus points to anybody. That's not including if you filled the golden sack of balls with water, made the entrance to your fortress in the middle of said balls, and made a golden entryway in the shape of a penis. Goblin ejaculator, anyone?

And there it is, the grand difference between minecraft and dwarf fortress: ejaculating goblins.
^and to those who don't get that joke, please read all bold text in my post. Read it well.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there are different ways of gratifications for everyone relating to a large amount of differences in their personal life. Some people like looking at golden sacks of balls that they created, others like eating cats, both are different people. But when you are comparing two different games that can barely be compared you're going to get completely different people.

That, and all above points have been made so many times in so many places, I'm counting 6 different instances on this thread alone. To help aid my point, I have added this image that suffers from the same exact problem.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[/textwall]

Edit: Also, This.

Re edit: My other half summarized everything I said in one sentence: "Wait, so they're comparing a construction game to a fantasy fortress simulator?"

[Gatleos]

Dig dug has nothing to do with dwarf fortress or minecraft, which in turn have little to do with each other outside of the fact that there is terrain and it can be manipulated on complex levels. I thought the World of Warcraft/Masters of Magic reference ground this in pretty thoroughly, but ah well.

That's exactly what I was saying, and why RedWarrior0 quoted it. We just didn't need several paragraphs to explain it. I think you might be the one who can't take subtle hints.

Edit: Also, This.

Zero Punctuation? Really?

[Rainseeker]

I like Minecraft in that it gives me something that Dwarf Fortress has also given me:  A unique and fun gaming experience.  I only hope that it continues to mature and grow... "like Dwarf Fortress," as Monk 12 put it. 

[RedWarrior0]

Dig dug has nothing to do with dwarf fortress or minecraft, which in turn have little to do with each other outside of the fact that there is terrain and it can be manipulated on complex levels. I thought the World of Warcraft/Masters of Magic reference ground this in pretty thoroughly, but ah well.

That's exactly what I was saying, and why RedWarrior0 quoted it. We just didn't need several paragraphs to explain it. I think you might be the one who can't take subtle hints.

Note: Anything that is at all negative about anyone else posted anywhere on the Internet is likely to spawn a flame war. I not-so-subtly hint that we not say anything that could at all be implied as insulting.

In fact, this thread is currently the same arguments being repeated, which is why I say lock it. Hopefully the creator still follows it.

[Gatleos]

This thread shouldn't have been started in the first place. I'm surprised one of the Adamins (see what I did there?) hasn't locked it by now.

[RedWarrior0]

Speaking of which, the OP:

This seems to have became a flame war in the .0.31.18 topic I figured it needs a separate thread instead of somewhere were we should really be talking about how good the new update is, not which one is better. So I decided to make this its own topic.

Begin voting and fighting.........NOW!

This is a resurrected flame war with the word "Fighting" as the direct object of the word "begin". Despite that, it hasn't really been too bad, but I still say kill it.

EDIT: I'll contact meanmelter and see if he'll lock it.

[Encased in burning magma]

RW, I wonder if you've ever played DF at all, using such phrases as "little effort involved"  and "simple".

Nothing just comes together.

I just feel that having your dwarves do all the effort somewhat detracts from the feeling of satisfaction.

Methinks he just likes to grind.
I'm curious about what you mean by effort.

[Nikov]

I voted for Minecraft because it has been more commercially successful. Toady needs to sell some T-shirts already.

[tolkafox]

I voted for Minecraft because it has been more commercially successful. Toady needs to sell some T-shirts already.

Nonsense. DF plushies. I would buy a carp plushie.

[_DivideByZero_]

Or an elf, on fire of course.

[Krelos]

Edit: Also, This.

Zero Punctuation? Really?

I wonder how many people can tell that his review of MC is overpoweringly positive.
And yeah, ZP is a good review source, because a lot of people agree with everything he says, myself being one of them.
That's how reviewing works, you find a critic who almost always agrees with you and then use his opinion to predict if you will like something before trying it yourself.

[Gatleos]

Edit: Also, This.

Zero Punctuation? Really?

I wonder how many people can tell that his review of MC is overpoweringly positive.
And yeah, ZP is a good review source, because a lot of people agree with everything he says, myself being one of them.
That's how reviewing works, you find a critic who almost always agrees with you and then use his opinion to predict if you will like something before trying it yourself.

I didn't even bother watching it, myself. I just don't like it when people bring up Zero Punctuation to aid their arguments, since the original intention of 99% of the things Yahtzee says is to piss people off rather than "review" anything.

[xordae]

I like the idea of Minecraft, but it seems kind of empty and pointless without the crowd of little bearded guys.