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Dwarf Fortress

Minecraft

Both

[Rex_Nex]

1/0 is not 0.

[PMantix]

Yes, x/0 is undefined.

Spoiler: And here's why: (click to show/hide)

What does 15 / 5 mean?

You might say it means, "how many groups of 5 can you make from 15?" And obviously, the answer is 3 groups of 5.

And you can check your answer by:

3 * 5 = 15

So using that logic, 15 / 0 means, "how many groups of 0 can you make from 15?"

No matter how many groups of 0 you make, you will never get 15. Ever.

And you can prove this to yourself by:

0 * 1 /= 15
0 * 100 /= 15
0 * infinity /= 15
0 * anything /= 15

There is nothing you can multiply by 0 to get 15, so there is no solution to 15/0. It is undefined.

..That's how I remember it from school at least.

[furrot]

I kinda enjoy both. I've been playing adventure mode a lot lately;many peasants have followed many adventurers to their deaths. I've also been building nether gates and running away from ghasts trying to get a glowing block I know I don't really need.

I've ALSO been doing this: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=91220

Which I've really been enjoying putting together so far and combines all the things I like.

[Losonti]

The way I figure DF is infinitely better, is gameplay/cost. If I rate gameplay on a 1-10 scale, even if I gave Minecraft "10" and Dwarf Fortress "1", the ratio is better. 1/0 is a better ratio then 10/1, infinitely more so.

The only way this is even remotely workable is if you view your time as worthless.

At any rate, this thread is hilarious. Both games are pretty fun. I actually played Minecraft first, and then made my way over here to DF. I actually play DF more, but it's hard to say which one is better because at their current stage, both games are pretty awful. I'd say MC, just because it's less hideous and has the beginnings of a half-decent interface. DF as it is now is almost completely unplayable without external utilities developed by fans. That is the sign of terrible design choices. Damn near everything I see on the wiki or forums are ways of getting around the mind-bogglingly terrible interface. You've all trained yourselves to adapt to the z-slices and keyboard interface and countless squiggles, but this doesn't mean they're a good idea.

The best part, though, is people complaining that Notch made a bunch of money and Toady didn't. That's probably because Notch had the brilliant idea of charging a small fee to people for playing the game he's pouring work into. He also had the foresight to hire additional people so that progress can continue at a pace that won't be unfavorably compared to glaciers. Toady has, however, declined to take either of these steps, and so he will continue to earn revenue only from fan donations (yeah, I see you guys complaining about the high cost of MC just lining up to throw money at DF).

[jaked122]

The origenal DF was build in C (If I am correct, and these days its C++ right?) and therefor I admire him to no end of being able to build what is without question an OOP project without the paradime, truely a coding king! The script must have had more go to's then asking for directions in New York!

You probably should not hiss on C if you have no real experience with it. It can handle OOP just fine (better than Perl, for one), and I doubt Toady used even single goto statement. In hands of unexperienced (or, worse, too self-confident) programmer C++ is far worse than C.

and yet C is still not oop, in fact, neither is C++, they are both multiparadigm, meaning you can program pretty much how you want in both. but C++ is class based for much of it, therefore it is still more OOP than C.

[thvaz]

The best part, though, is people complaining that Notch made a bunch of money and Toady didn't. That's probably because Notch had the brilliant idea of charging a small fee to people for playing the game he's pouring work into. He also had the foresight to hire additional people so that progress can continue at a pace that won't be unfavorably compared to glaciers. Toady has, however, declined to take either of these steps, and so he will continue to earn revenue only from fan donations (yeah, I see you guys complaining about the high cost of MC just lining up to throw money at DF).

Charging money for a game that may never be finished isn't a wise idea. See what people did to Minecraft because Notch didn't update the game fast enough.

Besides that, development of DF is becoming increasingly faster... maybe because the terrible design choices of Toady.

[Organum]

This thread inspired me to try, and eventually purchase, Minecraft. A few days later, Notch released an update with a few game-breaking bugs.

:|

Before that it was pretty fun. Dwarf Fortress definitely has more long-term entertainment value than survival mode, but the community created in multiplayer mode is pretty good as well.

[breadbocks]

At any rate, this thread is hilarious. Both games are pretty fun. I actually played Minecraft first, and then made my way over here to DF. I actually play DF more, but it's hard to say which one is better because at their current stage, both games are pretty awful. I'd say MC, just because it's less hideous and has the beginnings of a half-decent interface. DF as it is now is almost completely unplayable without external utilities developed by fans. That is the sign of terrible design choices. Damn near everything I see on the wiki or forums are ways of getting around the mind-bogglingly terrible interface. You've all trained yourselves to adapt to the z-slices and keyboard interface and countless squiggles, but this doesn't mean they're a good idea.

The best part, though, is people complaining that Notch made a bunch of money and Toady didn't. That's probably because Notch had the brilliant idea of charging a small fee to people for playing the game he's pouring work into. He also had the foresight to hire additional people so that progress can continue at a pace that won't be unfavorably compared to glaciers. Toady has, however, declined to take either of these steps, and so he will continue to earn revenue only from fan donations (yeah, I see you guys complaining about the high cost of MC just lining up to throw money at DF).

You sir, are being a troll. Begone, foul beast.

[metime00]

At any rate, this thread is hilarious. Both games are pretty fun. I actually played Minecraft first, and then made my way over here to DF. I actually play DF more, but it's hard to say which one is better because at their current stage, both games are pretty awful. I'd say MC, just because it's less hideous and has the beginnings of a half-decent interface. DF as it is now is almost completely unplayable without external utilities developed by fans. That is the sign of terrible design choices. Damn near everything I see on the wiki or forums are ways of getting around the mind-bogglingly terrible interface. You've all trained yourselves to adapt to the z-slices and keyboard interface and countless squiggles, but this doesn't mean they're a good idea.

The best part, though, is people complaining that Notch made a bunch of money and Toady didn't. That's probably because Notch had the brilliant idea of charging a small fee to people for playing the game he's pouring work into. He also had the foresight to hire additional people so that progress can continue at a pace that won't be unfavorably compared to glaciers. Toady has, however, declined to take either of these steps, and so he will continue to earn revenue only from fan donations (yeah, I see you guys complaining about the high cost of MC just lining up to throw money at DF).

Notch is charging money for an "awful" game, as you say it. He's requiring that you pay money before using the product, which, as you said, is awful. Toady is not. He gets money because we like the game after playing it. Minecraft is more expensive AND has less to do in it than Dwarf Fortress

There's no entry fee to get all the features of DF and it also has more features than I have fingers and toes. I can't say the same for Minecraft.

Also, Dwarf Fortress being a better game in spite of its interface is really a testament to the game's quality.

There's not much more I can say without letting my frustration at the post control me.

[forsaken1111]

Also, Dwarf Fortress being a better game in spite of its interface is really a testament to the game's quality.

This, a thousand times this.

I am a big snob when it comes to UI design. There are many otherwise good games which I cannot or will not play because of terrible UI decisions or design.

I tell you this so that when I say I play DF ALL THE GODDAMN TIME despite it's utterly terrible AI UI, you understand just how great I think this game is.

[nbonaparte]

the dwarves are pretty dumb, but I think you meant UI, not AI.

[forsaken1111]

Yes, I did.

Thank you.

(I have been awake for -glances- oh my... 29 hours.)

[breadbocks]

the dwarves are pretty dumb, but I think you meant UI, not AI.

He was talking about how the game is really sentient.

[Encased in burning magma]

the dwarves are pretty dumb, but I think you meant UI, not AI.

He was talking about how the game is really sentient.

It justs shows you a crappy interface. It wants to make you go away; lest you notice.
For at night, it learns.

[nbonaparte]

It's actually very optimized. FPS drain is it using more and more of your computer to think.