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Author Topic: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).  (Read 3039 times)

Ranzear

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Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« on: November 18, 2010, 01:07:16 am »
So the machine I'm on has not nearly enough snuff in it to run fortress mode, so I figured I'd give the revamped adventurer mode a try.

After rolling and dying a few dwarves, I noticed the Peasant/Hero/Demigod selection on the right side, and decided to pick the latter for a run.

I evened out his physical stats to fairly high values, and put every bit of skill into hammerdwarf, intending to end any fight before it begins.

At some point, after a quest or two, I was stuck in the wilderness and had a run-in with five Bogeymen. I proceeded to break every bone in their bodies. By the end I was far into Legendary Hammerdwarf and covered with yellow wounds (which thanks to high stats, recovered in a single night).

I didn't have much fear of the night after that, and decided to venture further than before and sleep in the wilderness as I pleased.

Then I got another pack of bogeymen, and this happened:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It broke my thumb, a totally trivial wound otherwise, which made me pass out and get killed. What. The. Hell?

Has anyone else encountered ridiculous impairments from trivial wounds like this? I got through having an ear severed and a Mortal Wound to the heart (just a blue, so I assume the flashing warning was just due to location, I walked it off).


Another thing, slightly related, is that Adventurer Mode needs a wrap-up screen. Something where you can see the final result of your character's stats, skills, quests finished, and other achievements, much like Nethack. I'm saddened to realize that I can't check what incredible Hammer skill I must have racked up after beating on bogeymen for two hours.
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Untouchable

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 01:18:33 am »
Were your willpower and toughness stats good? They both have an affect on the pain limit for your guy before they faint.
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drystan

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 01:30:35 am »
Extreme pain is currently a death sentence. Bogeymen will tend to kill you via pain or suffocation. Watch out for bogeymen with horns, as they are the ones which most often chip bones. Also, don't fight bogeymen, except maybe once or twice at the beginning to build up skills, and never sleep outside. Enemies can and will one-shot you in the head while you're sleeping. Wait for the bogeymen awake instead.

I personally think it's fine to have extreme pain cause problems, but it needs to be tweaked a bit. In real life people can hairline fracture bones and not even realise it until days later. I've never broken a bone before, so I can't share any anecdotes with you, however I have crushed a nerve before, and THAT is painful. It felt like a firehose of pain blasting through my nervous system. I think a crushed nerve is likely  worse than a broken bone.
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Ranzear

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 01:36:24 am »
Quote from: Untouchable on November 18, 2010, 01:18:33 am
Were your willpower and toughness stats good? They both have an affect on the pain limit for your guy before they faint.
Toughness was one level below maximum at start, but I didn't touch willpower. He did just fine with yellow wounds on every body part (and a bruised heart) and only once was nauseated. I just went nuts when I saw a single hit end his run completely like that.

It just seems a little... broken, no reference to the happenstance intended. It seems having a minor digit 'greensticked' has the same pain quantity as, say, snapping a femur in six places.

If anything I'm just running gauntlets to see how well each weapon type performs. Hammers seems a little... well let's just say that legendary Silver-Hammer cherrytapper dwarf would be proud. You can easily make several dozen attacks on most creatures before they expire.

Swords seem to be a good quick kill on most enemies.

Trying axes now.
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Yoink

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 03:03:29 am »
Yeah, have you tried legends mode? It gives some info on characters and events, but sadly it's very unwieldy at the moment, (I think-haven't tried it in .18 yet) and it doesn't mention skills etc. :( I'm sure improvements are in the works, though! :)
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Murphy

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2010, 03:38:23 am »
Look in the tissue_template_default.txt in the raws.
You'll find that most tissues have [PAIN_RECEPTORS:5] while bone has 50.
I changed these to 10 for skin and fat, and 25 for everything else, and the pain from wounds is now more evenly distributed.

Also, it seems that your stats don't have any effect on healing.
You'll just heal everything that can be healed in a single step over travel map or after any time of sleep.
The yellow wounds that remain are scars - you can see for yourself in your character's description.
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Chilton

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2010, 06:51:52 am »
Well, when im torturing people (Dont Judge Me)  old injuries create weaknesses, which amplify any pain inflicted later on, and slow your ability to recover. This can  often cause people to die well before their time.
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Sfon

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 03:21:13 pm »
Quote from: Murphy on November 18, 2010, 03:38:23 am
10 for skin and fat, and 25 for everything else

Good idea, though scale should be included in the 10 category with skin and fat.
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Toybasher

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 03:28:58 pm »
Yeah, this happens alot.

For some reason even with superhuman willpower and toughness a adventurer can shrug off MISSING LIMBS and not even get the yellow "PAIN" Indicator, even if both arms and a leg gets torn off.

Yet once you break a bone it causes EXTREME PAIN and will make a "Superhuman" adv pass out about 4 times.

It honestly needs to be fixed, the fact you can shrug off missing limbs yet a broken rib causes so much pain is just dumb and EXTREMELY annoying when a arrow to the rib ends up killing you even though you had your legs torn off without a problem.

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Ranzear

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2010, 03:49:57 pm »
Quote from: Sfon on November 18, 2010, 03:21:13 pm
Quote from: Murphy on November 18, 2010, 03:38:23 am
10 for skin and fat, and 25 for everything else

Good idea, though scale should be included in the 10 category with skin and fat.
I would think scale, shell, hooves, and horn should be between five and ten. It'd be akin to breaking a fingernail. Most things with scales are [NOPAIN] anyway. I'm not sure if the tag can simply be added but I'll try it.

Also let it be known I thought it was insanely awesome when I ripped the fingernail off of a prone kobold while wrestling.

Anyway, I'm giving the pain modifications a shot after an arrow chipped the bone on my right pinky and made me pass out (though didn't result in very-next-round death like the crazy example above.)

Here's what I'll be giving a try, most things I think would hurt if hit are increased and I added the tag to a few other things. Most organs stayed at 5 except hearts and brains (usually instant kills anyway, but gives the desired effect). Adding the tag to nerves may prove very effective or downright overdone.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Jervous

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2010, 03:56:17 pm »
That exact thing happened to me with a night creature. Kicked in the hand and gave in to pain, got kicked in the head and died immediately before being able to do anything.
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Fgw_wolf

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2010, 03:59:27 pm »
I've lost so many people to stuff like this, even with high tough and end. Its stupid annoying sometimes. >I've killed five dragons >killed by archer shooting me in the leg >pass out >shot in head. >Lol GG
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Sfon

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2010, 05:24:30 pm »
Quote from: Ranzear on November 18, 2010, 03:49:57 pm
I would think scale, shell, hooves, and horn should be between five and ten. It'd be akin to breaking a fingernail.

Scale material is used like skin in the creature raws, not as individual scales or a covering of scales with skin underneath. In other words it is scaly skin, not just scales; akin to cutting skin, not fingernails. That is why scale has "PAIN_RECEPTORS:5" by default, same as skin. The other things you mentioned lack the PAIN_RECEPTORS tag completely.
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The Grackle

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 06:09:06 pm »
Quote from: Untouchable on November 18, 2010, 01:18:33 am
Were your willpower and toughness stats good? They both have an affect on the pain limit for your guy before they faint.
I don't think willpower does anything yet.  Kinesthetic and spatial sense are the only mental attributes being used right now.
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Murphy

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Re: Trivial wound ends a mighty Dwarf (and other things).
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2010, 03:31:56 am »
Chitin and scale should be low-pain too, yeah. Hooves and horns are painless.
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