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[Vanigo]

Tempest-tossed civs start with half the population? That's probably an insurmountable disadvantage right there, especially since it takes a fixed amount of food to increase population, so increasing population gets easier, not harder, as long as you've got more decent terrain to work. (Speaking of which, we need to know what the terrain does, and what our existing techs do.) And it's even worse, because all of them but Luke Prowler start with what appear to be food-boosting terrain improvements. And starting populations this low make the native civs' early game advantages even more pronounced - with no real ability to research for at least the first ten turns or so (other than my mad scientist), it'll take us forever to catch up to even the Taharks' technological prowess, completely negating our only real advantage. Plus, if anything of note happens in the first ten turns or so, it'll be the tempest-tossed civs getting destroyed. If this is the starting setup, I'm seriously not sure I want to play.

About my setup:
Is Dignity supposed to increase or decrease the labor I have to put into working the land? The former seems more likely, but the way you've worded it, I can't tell. And if it increases the labor I need, does that mean I can only work one hex to start?
I don't think Zeal exactly makes sense. My people are wildly enthusiastic about pretty much everything they do, and if anything they're less zealous about military service.

About the different types of terrain: I'm not sure what they do, obviously, but I can't help but notice that the swamps around Luke Prowler's city are the only actual biome; everything else seems pretty sterile. Does this translate into a massive food advantage? And are those black lines food-increasing river analogues? If so, Nevyn will probably be unstoppable, except by Luke.

[Nirur Torir]

Civilization's food system requires progressively more food for each city level. I'd really prefer something like: FoodRequirement = 3 * CurrentPopulation. (It might work better with 4 * population or 5 * population, depending on how much food we can get from tiles.)

You really shouldn't force a no research penalty on somebody unless they want it. Part of the fun of these games is the research.

[abculatter_2]

Maybe I dived into this too quickly... I won't let this die unless you guys do, but I have a feeling it's going to be a rather bumpy, poorly thought-out ride.

Revising starting positions...

Civilization's food system requires progressively more food for each city level. I'd really prefer something like: FoodRequirement = 3 * CurrentPopulation. (It might work better with 4 * population or 5 * population, depending on how much food we can get from tiles.)

Yes, the food growth always worked like that, of course! WHO SAID IT DIDN'T?!?

[Criptfeind]

Yeah. No research is... Really really bad.

Traits should be... Less game effecting?

Also, terran should be almost even at the start, it does not have to be the same all the time (last time I played this game for instance I started with areas that start better but are harder to make better, this really did not effect the game so much.)

[Vanigo]

Barren Lands - (Brown)
1 food

Shard Fields - (Bluish-green)
1 Glass Shards

Blackstone Crystal - (Dark grey)
1 Blackstone Chip (Requires Blackstone Harvest)

Crag - (Black line)
+1 food
Provides Essence

Volcanic Wastes (Orange and brown)
Provides Lava

This is completely unplayable. Since each population point requires two food, it is mathematically impossible to have surplus food without farms or the like, and even putting your entire population to work on the best possible unimproved tiles only barely gets you enough.

[Luke_Prowler]

Yah, this wasn't thought out all the way. Half of the stuff you added isn't even explained. I mean, take my group: Is the Shrine to the Swamp Mother do anything different from a normal shrine (since the Temple of Zor is different, I assume it is), what does Foraging do? (I noticed that Nevyn's guys have it too, but I've seen no explanation). Or Swamp-dweller. What does the Thresher do? Are the Adamant Vines a replacement for Glass Shards or something completely different?

[lemon10]

Barren Lands - (Brown)
1 food

Shard Fields - (Bluish-green)
1 Glass Shards

Blackstone Crystal - (Dark grey)
1 Blackstone Chip (Requires Blackstone Harvest)

Crag - (Black line)
+1 food
Provides Essence

Volcanic Wastes (Orange and brown)
Provides Lava

This is completely unplayable. Since each population point requires two food, it is mathematically impossible to have surplus food without farms or the like, and even putting your entire population to work on the best possible unimproved tiles only barely gets you enough.

Bit harsh, but correct. We do need a bit more explanation for things.

[Vanigo]

Just a heads-up, I'm going to be out of town for Thanksgiving, with uncertain internet access.

[abculatter_2]

Alright, I'm reworking the food yields, as well as adding some documentation on stuff. Working a Barren Land will now provide enough food for 1 population, and a Shard Field enough for .5 population, though crags no longer directly provide food. Also, I'm now giving everyone a max of 1 research at the start. I'm also considering separating research from labor, but what other system should I use? Every x population provides 1 research point is tempting, but also wouldn't work unless I made native-born and tempest-tossed have different numbers for x.

[IronyOwl]

I hate to suggest it, but you could have research be completely static. It's painful, I know, but it would make the question of research more "Which direction do I want to go?" as opposed to "How hard can I go in whatever direction I want?"

In terms of less drastic measures, you could go a more Civ-ish route and have research resources, or resources that can be converted into research among other things.

[Neyvn]

What kind of weapon are these Glass Choppas

Also the Soilders are now known as Taharkido Warriors. The Tahark Hoard are NOT ORKS...

[abculatter_2]

I hate to suggest it, but you could have research be completely static. It's painful, I know, but it would make the question of research more "Which direction do I want to go?" as opposed to "How hard can I go in whatever direction I want?"

In terms of less drastic measures, you could go a more Civ-ish route and have research resources, or resources that can be converted into research among other things.

Hmmm...I've considered the Civ-ish route before, but I like the static research idea. It would make the research penalty on all the Native-Born (that wasn't an accident, btw) much more pronounced, as well as allow me to more easily assign research costs.

What kind of weapon are these Glass Choppas

Also the Soilders are now known as Taharkido Warriors. The Tahark Hoard are NOT ORKS...

Tahark Horde != Orks

I'll keep that in mind...


Hrmmm... What else needs to be fixed? I've changed the traits around a bit in the game thread, I guess now I should make up a few starting techs for you guys to research and probably mull about the population numbers vs food.

[abculatter_2]

Alright, here's what you guys can research for now (Note that these are not set-in-stone yet):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tempest-Tossed:

Discovery of the Essence:
  Requires Ancient Knowledge
  Allows Crude Essence Farm

Foraging:
  Causes a slight chance of finding a new resource when a tile is worked
  Allows construction of Hunting lodges

Stygian Geology:
  Requires Ancient Knowledge
  Allows Quarry

Stygian Material Science:
  Requires Ancient Knowledge
  Allows the use of 3 glass shards as 1 building material
  Prerequisite to refinement and use of Stygian resources

Stygian Survival:
  Requires Ancient Knowledge
  Slightly decreases chance of negative events
  Prerequisite for civil and warfare techs


Native-Born:

Foraging:
  Causes a slight chance of finding a new resource when a tile is worked
  Allows construction of Hunting lodges

Crude Essence Farming:
  Requires Native-Born
  Allows construction of Crude Essence Farm

Ripple in the Essence:
  Requires Native-Born
  Prerequisite for magical and metaphysical techs

Working the Land:
  Requires Native-Born
  Slightly increases chance of finding new resources
  Prerequisite for land improvement and resource usage techs

Warfare:
  Requires Native-Born
  Prerequisite for war-related techs

[lemon10]

Well, i just posted my turn, if their are more changes on the way ill change it as nessasary, but i hope that this does get off the ground.
I think that food getting and population growth should be changed again. As it is, you need to put all your energy into food to break even, and if you do manage to do more then break even, then you can increase your population forever.

Also, how does putting points into research work, are we going static research?

[Criptfeind]

I have a question.

What can I do with my .6 labor this turn? Does it do nothing now and then next turn I use it? Can I farm a tile with it for .6 of the stuff I would get?

Also, I can not work my home tile right?

Edit: Also, what does essence do?