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[CapnUrist]

So I've started a new fortress, and embarked at the junction of a stream minor and a major river (34 tiles across at the narrowest part), the stream falling 6 z-levels to the river (pretty...). As far as the blinking blue tells me while setting digging designations, there are 4 z-levels of aquifier on either side of the canyon about the river. This wouldn't be that big a deal but I'm set on building my entrance as a large bridge across the river into the waterfall area, as well as damming the stream small river to build a control sluice above the entrance that would allow the waterfall to be opened and shut like a defensive curtain. I've been unable to find a way of digging through the aquifier without washing my miners into the river to drown or be eaten by alligators. Any suggestions? I really don't want to dig all the way down from the surface as that would ruin the asthetics and reverse-pillbox plans I have.

EDIT: That's not a stream, Urist!

[Urist Imiknorris]

Pumps.

[Funburns]

Pumps.

I might have misunderstood, but I think CapnUrist wants to build a bridge into a cliff face (covered by a waterfall) which happens to be an aquifer, without coming in from above? Beautiful idea, by the way. I'm going to have to find somewhere to make one of those.

I'm not sure if throwing pumps at it would work for draining the aquifer. I think they'd break on impact, 'cause I've never heard of a successful pumpapult before. But from what you described, it sounds like the long way would work: Control the river and the alligators first, then figure out how to tunnel into the aquifer from the side, if that is what you're doing.

Alternately, you could dam the river and channel the waterfall back one square, using the drop down to give you a route over the aquifer to start with a pump project. Then when that's handled, just channel out the ugly tiles beneath the now-drained layer of aquifer to make the waterfall look even.

Edit: Or instead of channeling, construct stairs and floors down from safer terrain as a scaffold.

A screenshot might be helpful.

[Xenos]

does the aquifer extend to the surface of the water or is there one layer of mineable stone between the aquifer and the water level?

Code: [Select]

S
S
A
A
A
A
S
SWWWWor

Code: [Select]

S
S
A
A
A
A
SWWWWW

[CapnUrist]

Pumps.

I might have misunderstood, but I think CapnUrist wants to build a bridge into a cliff face (covered by a waterfall) which happens to be an aquifer, without coming in from above? Beautiful idea, by the way. I'm going to have to find somewhere to make one of those.

You've got it exactly; my apologies that I did not spell it out quite so clearly. And thanks for the praise on the idea; it hit me as soon as I saw the canyon.

A screenshot might be helpful.

How about two?

The level where I plan to build my bridge (note the aquifier tiles highlighted blue):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And the top of the canyon, where my dwarves are busy avoiding alligators and scraping out a miserable existence while they DIY some bronze weaponry.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

@Xenos: The aquifier goes all the way to the river surface, such as your second code depicts. The top four layers of the canyon are soil and yellow sand; the last three are sandstone.

Looks something like this

Code: [Select]

S        S    S-dry wall
S        S    A-aquifer/wet wall
A        A    W-river
A        A    b-planned bridge location
A        A
AbbbbbbbbA
A        A
SWWWWWWWWs

[ISGC]

that is a very impressive river.

[CapnUrist]

that is a very impressive river.

A far more elegant way of putting it than my first impression (this is the first major river I've embarked on). I think my thoughts went something like "GOD DAMN THAT'S BIG."

[decius]

Dam the small river. (C)onstruct stairs down, so that workers can reach the worksite. Dig out three adjacent tiles, and channel out the two tiles outside them. The water from the exposed aquafer should drain into the aquafer below. Repeat the process to dig a tunnel until you are clear of the aquafer, or someplace you can drop down. Your miners only have to worry about the tiles directly at the end of the hall, and they should drain off neatly, leaving you with 1 to 3 deep water where you need to work. To clean it up afterwords, build grates on the edges, then smooth the walls.

Or, you could use magma. Your final result shoud be an obsidian hallway.

Cheesy route: Build the bridge and entire entrance on the nearby nondamp stone. Reroute the little river to put the waterfall over your bridge.

[CapnUrist]

Dam the small river. (C)onstruct stairs down, so that workers can reach the worksite. Dig out three adjacent tiles, and channel out the two tiles outside them. The water from the exposed aquafer should drain into the aquafer below. Repeat the process to dig a tunnel until you are clear of the aquafer, or someplace you can drop down. Your miners only have to worry about the tiles directly at the end of the hall, and they should drain off neatly, leaving you with 1 to 3 deep water where you need to work. To clean it up afterwords, build grates on the edges, then smooth the walls.

Or, you could use magma. Your final result shoud be an obsidian hallway.

Cheesy route: Build the bridge and entire entrance on the nearby nondamp stone. Reroute the little river to put the waterfall over your bridge.

Let me make sure I'm clear on this. The resulting hallway should look like this, assuming a top-down view at the level of the worksite:

Code: [Select]

WWWWWWWW     
WWWWWWWW     
W.......     
W+++++++     
W+++++++     
W+++++++     
W.......     
WWWWWWWW     
WWWWWWWW     
If that's correct, could it be modified to make a 4-wide floor? (The waterfall is 8 tiles across and my OCD and I like things centered).

[decius]

I think it could be expanded fairly simply. I never used this method for 3-wide, but for 2-wide hallways it works just fine. The key feature is that any water over the channeled space goes away.
Worst case scenario,

Code: [Select]

WWWWWWWW   
WWWWWWWW     
W.......   
W+++++++   
W..+..+.   
W+++++++     
W+++++++     
W.......   
WWWWWWWW     
WWWWWWWW     And then build a floor over the 2nd row. A few portions that only get dug should help aviod miners going all the way back to the entrance.

I love the idea, by the way. I suggest making the bridge a large, covered drowning chamber. Bonus points for crossing the river south right after you cross it east, and for putting a trade depot in the drown zone.

And you are doing dwarven !!engineering!!  Why should it matter what the size of the waterfall is now. Make a +<<*waterfall*>>+

[CapnUrist]

So it turns out that the waterfall had been masking a secret; once I had dammed the river above, I noticed that down by the aquifer layers, there was still water pouring down the cliffside. Turns out that ONLY on the left side of the canyon, in the hollow that the river itself had carved, the aquifer layers are draining into the river below.

Would temporarily walling them in keep the water from flowing? Say, the two layers of aquifer above where I intend to begin working?

EDIT: My embark miner got washed away while attempting to start the tunnel on the far side, along with my only pick. I think smoothing the stone above would keep it from pouring water down.

[Pilsu]

Probably should teach your mining team to swim first.

[Dariush]

So it turns out that the waterfall had been masking a secret; once I had dammed the river above, I noticed that down by the aquifer layers, there was still water pouring down the cliffside. Turns out that ONLY on the left side of the canyon, in the hollow that the river itself had carved, the aquifer layers are draining into the river below.

Would temporarily walling them in keep the water from flowing? Say, the two layers of aquifer above where I intend to begin working?

EDIT: My embark miner got washed away while attempting to start the tunnel on the far side, along with my only pick. I think smoothing the stone above would keep it from pouring water down.

That won't work. I once tried a project similar to yours and after damming the river that was falling in I couldn't do anything with aquifer. I had to abandon.

[TurkeyXIII]

I recommend liberal application of wall/floor grates to prevent dwarves from being washed away. 

Also once you've cut into the cliff, there'll be constant water flowing from any aquifer tiles above the passage.  Smoothing walls will prevent water flowing from the sides, but not the top.  Decius' idea is good, but you'll need grates over the side canals to prevent accidental drownings and the central floor probably shouldn't be more than two tiles wide.

[CapnUrist]

I recommend liberal application of wall/floor grates to prevent dwarves from being washed away. 

Also once you've cut into the cliff, there'll be constant water flowing from any aquifer tiles above the passage.  Smoothing walls will prevent water flowing from the sides, but not the top.  Decius' idea is good, but you'll need grates over the side canals to prevent accidental drownings and the central floor probably shouldn't be more than two tiles wide.

That won't work. I once tried a project similar to yours and after damming the river that was falling in I couldn't do anything with aquifer. I had to abandon.

So I've learned this the hard way, after having three miners washed away into the river. Savescumming because I refuse to be beaten; I will have this bridge done! It will be slow and grating, pun intended. BUT IT WILL BE DONE. FOR ARMOK!!

It will be four wide at least, maybe six, with grates to prevent any deaths... of dwarves. Goblin siege? OPEN THE GRATES!