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Author Topic: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop  (Read 3804 times)

TheSummoner

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 01:53:29 am »

But thats the thing... As you said, the moody Dwarf is on a mission...

If he needs a workshop and there isn't already one, why would he let that delay his mission? Why would he sit around doing nothing when that workshop that he needs to fulfill his life's ambition is in need of construction?

The moody dwarf would see it as a step to completing his mission. He NEEDS wood. He NEEDS shell. He NEEDS metal bars. He NEEDS silk cloth. And yes, he NEEDS that workshop. Nothing matters more.
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Max White

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 01:55:58 am »

That follows the same logic as saying that a moody dwarf should grab an axe and lob down a tree when he requires wood, and helpout by making some glass when the sand bags are right there and he wants glass. To this dwarf, nothing else matters, so it's either he is making the artifact or he isn't, and he can not comprehend doing anything else.

Ze Spy

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 05:42:19 am »

That follows the same logic as saying that a moody dwarf should grab an axe and lob down a tree when he requires wood, and helpout by making some glass when the sand bags are right there and he wants glass. To this dwarf, nothing else matters, so it's either he is making the artifact or he isn't, and he can not comprehend doing anything else.

And if you are that unhelpful , there is a door behind you

Idea's good , it might not sound like a good idea at first , But when your whole fortress is either "On break" or "Sleeping" or "eating" or "Storing useless crap in bag" and a dwarf goes moody , this thing is going to be helpful
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Max White

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 06:32:22 am »

Ah yes, I know that mentality, anything other then blind nods is being unhelpful. Any opinion other then your own is wrong. Here I am, debating a position with relevant arguments, and then you go and dismiss it all by simply saying I should leave. If you think I am wrong, then it is your right to tell me why, and then I can tell you why I don't agree with those points, and then you say why you don't agree with that, untill we either agree on something, or we can't think of more reasons to debate and let it rest, and then I take my leave.

Idea's good , it might not sound like a good idea at first , But when your whole fortress is either "On break" or "Sleeping" or "eating" or "Storing useless crap in bag" and a dwarf goes moody , this thing is going to be helpful

Well that dosn't sound very fun. The abilty to have your dwarfs train other, more obscure skills would be very useful. So much so, in fact, that there are mods out there to do this, however, they are not in vanilla, simply because a 'useful' feature and a 'good' feature are not the same thing. If you havn't noticed, Toady is constructing a game of rather hard difficulty, and justifying this with a brillient flavor, and I for one wouldn't like to see that flavor taken out for the sake of making your life easier when you can't manage a single dwarf to do something.

Rvlion

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 08:57:39 am »

Ah yes, I know that mentality, anything other then blind nods is being unhelpful. Any opinion other then your own is wrong. Here I am, debating a position with relevant arguments, and then you go and dismiss it all by simply saying I should leave. If you think I am wrong, then it is your right to tell me why, and then I can tell you why I don't agree with those points, and then you say why you don't agree with that, untill we either agree on something, or we can't think of more reasons to debate and let it rest, and then I take my leave.

Idea's good , it might not sound like a good idea at first , But when your whole fortress is either "On break" or "Sleeping" or "eating" or "Storing useless crap in bag" and a dwarf goes moody , this thing is going to be helpful

Well that dosn't sound very fun. The abilty to have your dwarfs train other, more obscure skills would be very useful. So much so, in fact, that there are mods out there to do this, however, they are not in vanilla, simply because a 'useful' feature and a 'good' feature are not the same thing. If you havn't noticed, Toady is constructing a game of rather hard difficulty, and justifying this with a brillient flavor, and I for one wouldn't like to see that flavor taken out for the sake of making your life easier when you can't manage a single dwarf to do something.
Create an ON or OFF option. Many are happy they have it slightly easier, you are happy because you love to micro manage every dwarf that runs in your fortress.  8)
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Ubiq

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 09:33:01 am »

My main concern is how you prevent a dwarf from using a critical component if they can automatically build a workshop for a Strange Mood. It won't do you much good if Urist grabs the last log on a treeless map and decides to make a Wooden Craft or the last metal bar or that coke you were waiting to start your metal industry with or so on. Either he goes nuts because of a lack of item/deconstructed workshop or your entire fort grinds to a halt while waiting for him to complete the artifact. Even if it's not an important item that he chooses, it'd be a bit of a nuisance if he chooses that piece of periclase sixty layers down instead of the thousand rock salt stones six layers down. You could forbid the item in question, but that jacks up the risk that he won't complete the artifact before going insane. That and there's also the possibility that he won't be able to finish the workshop in question; possibly because he tried to build it over a stone that's already been designated for some other task or even because that wardog you assigned to him blocks the construction.

That won't be much of a problem in later forts, but could cause major problems in an early fort if an early immigrant rush triggers a Strange Mood and uses a critical item before the caravan can arrive.

It seems unnecessarily risky compared to just activating a labor on a dwarf long enough to construct a workshop and then disabling it. If you have a tendency to forget that sort of thing, then just use a labor you never normally use. I use Woodcrafting myself.
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Kogut

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2010, 12:24:47 pm »

*eyeroll*

Its not that complicated of a suggestion... I have no clue why so many people are misunderstanding it.

Currently

Moody Dwarf A needs a Workshop B to work on Artifact C. Workshop B does not exist on the map. Moody Dwarf A sulks in a corner. Player designates construction of Workshop B. Moody Dwarf A continues to sulk. Urist McRandom constructs Workshop B. Moody Dwarf A claims newly constructed Workshop B and starts trying to make Artifact C.

Suggestion for what SHOULD happen

Moody Dwarf A needs a Workshop B to work on Artifact C. Workshop B does not exist on the map. Moody Dwarf A sulks in a corner. Player designates construction of Workshop B. Moody Dwarf A builds Workshop B and starts trying to make Artifact C.

It should be copied to first post to explain suggestion.
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CaptApollo12

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2010, 10:59:42 pm »

I read a book by RA salvador. His character brunuor (butchered spelling) basically had a mood to create a returning warhammer for his adopted son. In this circumstance he had been saving addy and runes to use some day. He then suddenly went and worked day and night on this weapon. He created a workshop out of the clanhold farther up in the mountains to work in peace. He took no breaks. THAT is what I see in a mood...
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dwarfhoplite

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2010, 08:31:19 am »

i wouldn't like when dorfs build workshops all over the place. in addition to that i think any developed fortress has every workshop so there wouldn't be any need for this
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Urist McCheeseMaker

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2010, 09:23:26 am »

Here's one.. a moody dwarf will just take the workshop that's most similar to the one he wants. They'll just rearrange it all over the fucking place, but by the gods, they will have their workshop!
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Deimos56

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Re: Make moody dwarves able to build their own workshop
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2010, 04:49:05 pm »

i wouldn't like when dorfs build workshops all over the place. in addition to that i think any developed fortress has every workshop so there wouldn't be any need for this
You... you didn't read the entire thread, did you. :-\
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