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[vadia]

When infection sets in the diagnoser should be able to check it -- how bad is the amputation really -- maybe we should leave it alone -- or use leaches to leach the poisons out (it actually works and for some leach use has come back in modern medicine) -- for some unlucky souls there needs to be an amputation.
1 benifit -- less death through infection
a second benifit is keeping the doctor staff busy.  The diagnoser is clear.  Wound dresser might apply leaches. Bone doctor does the cutting, suturer sutures afterwards.
Furthermore it is a great trapped animal -- now the animal trapper gets some large importance.  And outside of swamps it should be a highly sought after trade item (one of the most valuable unprocessed items in the game after certain raw gems and ores) -- They could kept in barrels or aquariums.

[Namfuak]

We could also use maggots for the same purpose.  I think catching leeches would be more of a fisherdwarf's job though.

[Capntastic]

Amputation is already in the game, I'm pretty sure; if not, it's planned.   There's also threads about prostheses and stuff too.

[vadia]

Amputation is already in the game, I'm pretty sure; if not, it's planned.   There's also threads about prostheses and stuff too.

It may be true, but has he mentioned cutting off old injuries with infections -- that I haven't seen.

[de5me7]

leeches?

ave urrr got any leeches for this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Cw1HBiV4k

[AngleWyrm]

For amputation to work, we need crutches to work.
Also, we could use a hammer and spike to punch holes in the afflicted's skull to let the demons out.

[scout890]

lol what if leechmen were hired

[vadia]

lol what if leechmen were hired

I actually think that would be cool

[TheyTarget]

When infection sets in the diagnoser should be able to check it -- how bad is the amputation really -- maybe we should leave it alone -- or use leaches to leach the poisons out (it actually works and for some leach use has come back in modern medicine) -- for some unlucky souls there needs to be an amputation.
1 benifit -- less death through infection
a second benifit is keeping the doctor staff busy.  The diagnoser is clear.  Wound dresser might apply leaches. Bone doctor does the cutting, suturer sutures afterwards.
Furthermore it is a great trapped animal -- now the animal trapper gets some large importance.  And outside of swamps it should be a highly sought after trade item (one of the most valuable unprocessed items in the game after certain raw gems and ores) -- They could kept in barrels or aquariums.

Leeches are a lot more common then you think. I used to catch them all the time as a kid, and coincidently I was just at the museum checking out an exhibit on marine wildlife, and leeches can survive in incredibly dirty water, and persists where most others cant. I don't think they would really be a trade commodity anywhere unless you don't have freshwater. Though, it was mostly dealing with Canadian lakes, rivers, and ponds though they never mentioned it was specific to here.

[Moddan]

Hmm, isn't it currently possible to make some kind of amputation chamber? For example if you have a dwarf with an infected hand, let him put on high quality steel or fun-metal armor, leaving only the hand exposed. Then move him in a chamber with cutting weapon traps and treat him there until the problem is solved - one or the other way.

[thijser]

Don't leaches live in murky areas rather then clean water? That would mean we could find them in most murky ponds.

Anyway it seems quite cool.

[Mel_Vixen]

Well leeches for modern therapies are grown in special ponds sometimes even in fishtanks. The leeches inject a solution of ~20 different chemicals into the host from which some are antibacterial and Anti-inflammatory in nature. Heparin and Herudin which are part of the solution suppress Blood coagulation/clotting and widden the bloodvessels (lowering the blood-pressure). Hayluronidase stops musclecramps around the wound which can be helpful.

There are some Long-term effects on Arthritis/Athrosis which were observed in a study from 2004. Said effects were reducing respective removing the pain and suppressing inflammation of the illness for as long 3-6 as months after the leeches were set (observed in 75% of the recipients with the percentage going down with the lenght of time ). Some scientist Theorize that this can be the effect of bacteria in the salvia of the Leech rather then an just a chemical in the said salvia.   

[Deimos56]

We could also use maggots for the same purpose.

As I understand it, maggots are used medically to consume dead/gangrenous/etc tissue. Usually with a dressing over them so the patient doesn't have to watch themselves getting eaten.

They also have to be sterile. For obvious reasons.

Dwarves don't understand the word sterile, unfortunately, so this would end in tears. Tears and infections. Same for the leeches, really. Unless dwarves spontaneously learn how to keep things clean...

Also, what Heph said, if the dwarves could actually accomplish this.
Also also, leeches to control bleeding would be counterproductive, due to the mentioned anticoagulants in leech saliva.

[Aspgren]

Dwarves might not understand "sterile" but they understand concepts like "dip da bugger in alcohol n' he works better"

Why it makes them work better? Because alcohol. Alcohol makes everything work better. Logic. DWARVEN logic.

[Silverionmox]

Bloodletting was often used as a cure-all though, and leeches were one way of letting blood. A medical action often doesn't need to be effective to be considered so.