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[GreatWyrmGold]

Indeed.
Maybe some kind of "potter's wprkshop," requiring a millstone (or something else round) and some mechanisms but allowing potters to make stuff out of clay without firing it?

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Making Wood and Clay Slabs

Spoiler: Reactions (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:MAKE_WOOD_SLAB]
[NAME:make wooden slab]
[BUILDING:CRAFTSMAN:CUSTOM_ALT_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:WOOD:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SLAB:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:CARPENTRY]

[REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_SLAB]
[NAME:make clay slab]
[BUILDING:KILN:CUSTOM_ALT_S]
[REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FIRED_MAT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SLAB:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:clay:FIRED_MAT]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:POTTERY]

@GWG
I think the only way to make clay useful is to fire it. But i've only worked with clay a few times in my life, so there may be other ways to make clay useful with out being fired. But without firing is clay just no better then dried mud?

I had a post all ready to go with spells and stuff, but something messed up and I had to redo this post. Then again without the acual ground work those spells might sit there for quite a bit.

[Lagotrope]

Alright, I'll be working to integrate this stuff in what I have. I expect there to be mistakes, and I'll do a playtest to make sure I haven't made redundancies in the menus or what have you before I upload anything.

Also, to avoid confusion between kobold spears and normal spears, I may rename it to something else, such as a 'pointy stick' or similar. And yes, I forgot that without stone, making slabs would be difficult.

Now, I've rerealized that I am way behind on the workings of mods. For one thing, I've heard that it's impossible for kobolds to normally become necromancers, and I couldn't find the thread post that explained how to change this. I'm not sure if I'd WANT to change this, but I would like to know how.

Moving along, I do like the idea of crude things, but at the moment a lot of it seems potentially redundant. A lot of these metal objects could just be melted down and reforged, unless there's something I'm missing. It may be worth rethinking the available jobs, and shut down some advanced stuff like weapon/armorsmithing. But last I checked, shutting down one job shut down the whole family of skills, so more than just armor/weaponsmithing would be affected. It's been a long time, but I do recall there being a reason why I opened those jobs again; although the reason may be long since gone.

I'm also pretty certain that firing clay isn't an issue so long as one has wood to burn to charcoal. I admittedly forgot about the mechanics of that as well.

For a musclebold caste, I would be interested in that as well. It would be nice I think to add some flavor, although I likely would prefer to keep it simple with just a few castes rather than having 10 different kinds of kobolds to keep track of. Nevertheless, it's a good idea. Same with the shamans, although I do agree with Bronze Dog that it may be best to keep the magic subtle, IF possible to do so. I'd still prefer hurling ice bolts than no magic at all, for sure.

[Bronze Dog]

I was able to get kobold necromancers when I worldgenned for KC, but not in vanilla DF. I'm wondering if giving them linguistic skill might have played a part.

I did make a few tweaks of my own copy of KC, but I doubt they affected it. I made kobolds generate towns (but not roads or forts) and to prefer towns, changed their biome preferences to forests and swamps, and some ethics tweaks. (Apparently there's a decent number of wars about displaying hunting trophies)

Cute moment I remember looking at legends mode: Many of the books necromancers write are about other necromancers. I found one kobold necromancer who wrote a book about his wife. D'aw.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

I was going to post the Ice spells and Earth ones, plus slow and confusion. And I think 3-4 castes of bold is good (Normal, Shaman, Muscles, Ambusher)

but other spells could be made "learnable" if there would be anymore planned other then:

Icicle
Ice Shards
Slow
Confuse/Befuddle
Heal

As for the necro thing, Kobolds need to have a pathegeon Religion I believe. Also had another Idea for a spell, Something that weakens animated corpses. CaptainKobold was a victum of a Necromancer attack, and maybe having something that can counter "evil" magic might be good?

[Bronze Dog]

Ah, now that makes sense. I did switch my kobolds to pantheon religion and forgot about it.

I suppose the castes would be one way to make multiple races within one entity. I suppose having "muscle" kobolds has its appeal, since many game races have some associated brute race to counterbalance another's war machines or heavy infantry.

Just had a possible idea for shamans: Enchanting equipment. Leather armor -> Magic leather armor, with "magic leather" as a slightly stronger material. Would be something to use that trained concentration on. Of course, keeping in with the underdog theme, I wouldn't make it a huge boost. Do wonder about how to make it interact with item quality, though. It might be akin to decoration with the second layer of quality marks.

Healing magic seems a likely application, since I'm getting some kind of witchdoctor/medicine man idea, though I picture it as the shaman using herbs and such with medical care for some kind of extra benefit.

I'm no modding expert, so all this is new ground for me.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Well healing I can make it a spell that lasts 100-200 ticks, and boosts recuperation by 10 times. But the shaman has to be by/near the wounded for he//she to keep adding this "healing" effect.

As for the how the castes would work

[CASTE:MALE_NORMAL]
[POP_RATIO:90000]
[CASTE:FEMALE_NORMAL]
[POP_RATIO:90000]
[CASTE:MALE_SHAMAN]
[POP_RATIO:1]
-add base level spells, icicle and healing-
[CASTE:FEMALE_SHAMAN]
[POP_RATIO:1]
-Might as well use a SELECT_CASTE method for adding shaman spells and pop_ratios-
[CASTE:MALE_MUSCLE]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:FEMALE_MUSCLE]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:MALE_SHADOW]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:FEMALE_SHADOW]
[POP_RATIO:1]

All the "better" castes are a upgrade only option, thus no matter what you will never have a upgrade caste migrate or show up in worldgen. These upgrades can be given in a few ways:
Most common - Boiling Stone inhaled syndrome (can affect more then one bold)
Second common - Consumable Item (can affect 1 bold at a time, but must be hungry/thirsty and hard to controll who eats/drinks it without micro-managment)

But Muscle bolds could maybe be a natural rare caste? I prefer it being a upgrade, Like having the Shaman/Witch-Doctor whip up some roids from various plants, and venoms (a use for traders bringing random blood and venom) Then have a normal bold take the roids, and get beef'd up.

Also as a side-effect of being a roid raging kobold, maybe they need to drink booze and only can eat meat? (for the booze I can use a timer that if the muscle bold doesn't drink booze they will get weaker until they become crazed/berserk? the berserk part might be a bit over kill?)

If these upgrades are good to go, I think they should have a + and a - effect. Because if Shamans, or roid bolds, or shadow bolds have no bad effects, what is stopping someone from just upgrading all bolds to that?

[GreatWyrmGold]

@GWG
I think the only way to make clay useful is to fire it. But i've only worked with clay a few times in my life, so there may be other ways to make clay useful with out being fired. But without firing is clay just no better then dried mud?

Think Play-Doh. If you could have made it from a sufficiently large chunk of Play-Doh as a kid, someone with enough time and damp clay on their hands can make it out of clay.
Toy balls, little things that can be used as ammo, flat-topped (although crude and legless) chairs and tables, crude blocks, statues, slabs, simple stuff like that.

Also: What happens if POP_RATIO is 0? That seems to be a much more efficiient way than giving normal 'bolds a RATIO of 90,000. Also, brutebolds sound more like dull, slow, maybe clumsy kobolds that happened to be born bigger and stronger than their counterparts, and maybe with claws or natural combat skills (3-4 levels of fighter?) or something. No more than one in ten, maybe one in a hundred. There might be a spell/workshop reaction/something that turns a normal kobold into something a bit bigger and stronger than a brute, and a brute into a big, hulking thing a bit stronger than a dwarf.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

@GWG
I think the only way to make clay useful is to fire it. But i've only worked with clay a few times in my life, so there may be other ways to make clay useful with out being fired. But without firing is clay just no better then dried mud?

Think Play-Doh. If you could have made it from a sufficiently large chunk of Play-Doh as a kid, someone with enough time and damp clay on their hands can make it out of clay.
Toy balls, little things that can be used as ammo, flat-topped (although crude and legless) chairs and tables, crude blocks, statues, slabs, simple stuff like that.

Also: What happens if POP_RATIO is 0? That seems to be a much more efficiient way than giving normal 'bolds a RATIO of 90,000. Also, brutebolds sound more like dull, slow, maybe clumsy kobolds that happened to be born bigger and stronger than their counterparts, and maybe with claws or natural combat skills (3-4 levels of fighter?) or something. No more than one in ten, maybe one in a hundred. There might be a spell/workshop reaction/something that turns a normal kobold into something a bit bigger and stronger than a brute, and a brute into a big, hulking thing a bit stronger than a dwarf.

Well when POP_RATIO is "0" DF defaults it to 50? or is it 100? plus a really large POP_RATIO on plain bolds doesn't hurt

I like th brute Idea and maybe they could be a rare/less common bold aka can be born naturally. But if we add the HULKing bold then that is 2 more castes and with what I have now is 8 castes, the hulks would bring it up to 10

For a musclebold caste, I would be interested in that as well. It would be nice I think to add some flavor, although I likely would prefer to keep it simple with just a few castes rather than having 10 different kinds of kobolds to keep track of.

I could do the caste work, but It's up to Lago.

About the clay, hmm.. seems like a good point, altho if a bunch of clay was put together and it dried, it would crack massively. But a soft clay slab could be doable, but it would have to stay nice and moist unless it is not very thick (1") to prevent it cracking in half if it dryed. Also I prefered plaster-ceen as a kid, play-doh dried out and turned rock hard when I was younger. I was forgetful and left it out ok, lol.

Plus what is the harm in making charcoal and firing the clay if chairs and more stuff is desired to be made from clay, then I see no harm in making the reactions to do so.

Now I just have to wait for Lago in meantime

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

back to my mod!

[GreatWyrmGold]

I can imagine somehing like:
~3 clay -> 1 table or chair
1 clay -> 2-3 blocks
1 clay -> 20-30 clayshot (for a sling, or some other ranged weapon that can use stones as ammo)
5 clay -> 10-50% chance of a mechanism*, lots of useless clay bits of some sort. Maybe a few blocks?
1 clay -> 1-3 craft items, or 2 toys/mugs/etc.
Maybe there should be a separate material for these--"cracked clay" for most clay and
"cracked fire clay" for fire clay.
Unrelated: I like the idea of magical clay, rarely appearing as single-tile or small clusters in clay. Burning clay (hot, and useful in some reactions) in fire clay, for instance, or glowing clay in all kinds of clay. Burning clay could be made into burning clay torches (a special kind of weapon--I can also see "lit torches" made from wood, cloth, and oil or tallow) or used as a reagent in some magic, or maybe turned into fuel; glowing clay could be used as a reagent in making shamen.

*I have no idea what a mechanism is supposed to be, and so have no idea how realistic this is.

[Lagotrope]

Alright, the playtest didn't show anything to go critically wrong, although it wasn't a thorough one, so I'm not 100% confident in no errors (though the errorlog is clean at least.)

In any case, version 1.51 is up.

I've put in most of the recent reactions listed up to my last post, but feel free to mention if I missed anything.

For a musclebold caste, I would be interested in that as well. It would be nice I think to add some flavor, although I likely would prefer to keep it simple with just a few castes rather than having 10 different kinds of kobolds to keep track of.

I could do the caste work, but It's up to Lago.

As Lago, I approve of this. I've got a fuzzy grasp on castes, so if you do make some, I'd love to use them. Thanks once again.

And I do agree that castes should have a plus and minus to them. It's new to me that a bold could be 'upgraded' to a caste, as I thought they were born as a certain caste and that was it. All the better if it could be worked like upgrades, such as shamans using magic/herbs to make a musclebold.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

I DL'ed V1.51 and will work on castes and interactions, Commenting as I go. If your next update involves altering the Kobold Creature let me know, because how i do Castes I basically completely re-arrage the creature.

Also for Castes I have this idea planned out:

Shamans
+Combat Magic (Ice, earth, Fire as an option learning choice)
+Curses/Wards (Can slow, confuse, and weaken undead beings)
+Healing Magic (Any kobold near the shaman gets a boost in healing rates, but the Shaman must be near them)
-Frail (takes more damaged)
-Weak (Can't really fight back in a fist fight)
-Shorter lifespan (max age is cut in half)

Musclebolds
+Stronger (might be able to pick up a human and toss em like a sack of potatos)
+Tougher (take a few arrows to the knee and still walk)
+No fear
+Harder to exert
-Needs Meat as food
-Needs Booze or will get weaker, and in a year beserk
-Can't get phys stats up
-Sterile
-Prone to Rage (lose control during fights, it's a hit and miss)

Shadowbolds
+Can hide/ambush
+Faster
-frail
-slower due to ambush mode
-should only be used for dedicated soldier bolds

[Lagotrope]

I DL'ed V1.51 and will work on castes and interactions, Commenting as I go. If your next update involves altering the Kobold Creature let me know, because how i do Castes I basically completely re-arrage the creature.

Also for Castes I have this idea planned out:

Shamans
+Combat Magic (Ice, earth, Fire as an option learning choice)
+Curses/Wards (Can slow, confuse, and weaken undead beings)
+Healing Magic (Any kobold near the shaman gets a boost in healing rates, but the Shaman must be near them)
-Frail (takes more damaged)
-Weak (Can't really fight back in a fist fight)
-Shorter lifespan (max age is cut in half)

Musclebolds
+Stronger (might be able to pick up a human and toss em like a sack of potatos)
+Tougher (take a few arrows to the knee and still walk)
+No fear
+Harder to exert
-Needs Meat as food
-Needs Booze or will get weaker, and in a year beserk
-Can't get phys stats up
-Sterile
-Prone to Rage (lose control during fights, it's a hit and miss)

Shadowbolds
+Can hide/ambush
+Faster
-frail
-slower due to ambush mode
-should only be used for dedicated soldier bolds

I never did get a handle on messing with creatures. I just barely began to understand 40d, then 31.xx came out and I was lost again. Point is, I believe I'm satisfied with how they are currently, at most I may mess with descriptors, but likely not.

The castes appear good for the most part, but the musclebolds have a couple of parts that I wonder about. For instance, the 'need meat as food' is already implemented back in with [BONECARN], unless you mean that they will just be [CARNIVOROUS] instead. Also, the not able to get physical stats up seems like a pretty significant minus to the niche that they fill - although if their other bonuses already make them that much tougher, then for balance sakes that may be best still. It would be a thing that would require testing I suppose, it just stood out to me given that it's counterintuitive at first glance.

Since Shaman is a job (manager), I may rename that, to avoid confusion with actual shamans. I'll probably keep the job, but limit its duties to religion, rather than religion AND management. And taming exotics, apparently. Perhaps the same with witch doctor, as that implies more magicky stuff than the fact that they are just a doctor.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Muscle bolds might get a major boost to str, and all that. But this is all still in the planning. So any input from you or others is welcome, I don't want to make one upgrade OP just have a helpful skill that may or maynot help the camps survival.

As for the CARNIVORE that is what I was going for, I thought bolds could eat plants too?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Depends, did you remove/not add [BONECARN]?
...For that matter, can civilized BONECARNs eat bones or just meat?