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[The Doctor]

Yes it does.

[Lagotrope]

Fantastic mod.  It is the only one I have used to date, even if My Kobolds keep getting butchered by Elves.

I am looking forward to the ability to grow trees, it will make building defensive positions a lot easier.

Does the [BONECARN] tag stop Kobolds from eating plants?  I have tried to search but all I have seen is that it implies [CARNIVORE] which sounds like a no plants kind of deal.

As DoctorZ put the simple answer, yes. To further explain, farming still has uses by creating either rope reed, or in other cases wine/ale/alcoholic beverage, which although they are carnivorous, they will drink that. Furthermore, if you have a cook, then when you create fancy foods that involve more than one ingredient, you can put plants into the product. As long as there's at least one unit of meat involved, they'll eat it even if it's mostly plant (last I checked). So there are ways around it, and outdoor farming still has some good uses.

As far as getting meat is concerned, early on you can generally get by by fishing in water. Unless this has changed, before long the river will run dry of fish though, but usually not before you can get a good amount of exportable goods, whether it's basic carvings or a goblin siege you managed to survive. In my experience, once I get a good number of kobolds, the ability to sustain the camp is entirely dependent on the caravans coming through and your kobolds buying out all the meat they bring in. Many a time have I gotten precariously close to an empty meat stock before the human caravan finally came in with their massive number of meat, as sometimes the kobold goods are a bit underwhelming.
Though this was primarily in the 40d experience, the goblin's sieges made in hopes of killing every last one of my kobolds was, in fact, the one thing that prevented all my kobolds from starving without enough money to buy food.

[GaxkangtheUnbound]

You say the vermin cooking recipe doesn't work?
Try this as the product:
   [PRODUCT:100:1:MEAT:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:MUSCLE]
From what I've seen, creature "meat" is actually muscle.

[Bronze Dog]

Been a while since I've DF/KC'd. ...I've been Minecrafting. Sometimes with a Cutebold skin on my character.

Glad to see updates are still being done, though I'll have to get acquainted with the latest changes to know what's possible.

I thought I'd mention a few ideas I dreamed up, at the risk of repeating some ideas I posted in the previous thread:

More technical stuff:

Atlatl: A spear-throwing stick used way back. It could be a good alternative projectile weapon, with javelins as the projectiles (to differentiate them from melee-oriented spears).

Ceramics: Someone else brought it up way back, last time I was on the forum, and I smacked myself on the head for not thinking about it. The concept: Gather clay like you would sand, and you fire it in a kiln to produce ceramic objects with properties similar to stone. I don't know what difficulties would come with modding it in, unless Toady did it during the months I wasn't looking. Ceramic blocks (AKA bricks) could be used for building constructions.

Banded armor: I had a thought about armor kobolds with their low metalworking skills would make, and armor made of bands of metal came to mind: It wouldn't be as protective as plate armor, and it wouldn't require forging very large amounts of metal at once: Make a bunch of strips of metal an just tie them together with rope reed string in a semi-haphazard way. It's still flexible, and I imagine kobolds need to retain some agility, since a small critter in full plate probably wouldn't be as well-protected as another creature with actual mass.

Flavorful stuff: How I'd play kobolds, just to share my private vision.

I'd probably tweak the mod so that kobolds can dig stone, but I'd restrain myself from just hollowing out mountains. A small stone home carved into the side of a cliff would be reserved for high-ranking kobolds and maybe storage for the most valuable of items.

Magic circles and runes: I'd give a shaman some engraving duties and give a few tweaks so that kobolds would favor geometric shapes. The engraved runes would have no actual effects aside from psychological ones, but they'd look magical, and that's what would matter to the superstitious kobolds.

Religion: I'll be reading up on the relevant tokens for religion. Something tells me that kobolds are the sorts who'd be particularly prone to worshiping Titans and such.

[Verdian]

I haven't tried Kobold camp in a while, so I am looking forward to playing again. Two questions: First, can someone explain how to add Ironhand's Graphics to KC? I tried doing it and ended up ruining my folder. Second, do kobolds need to muddy grass to farm above ground? If so, does anyone have a better way of doing this than digging into the side of a pond and letting the water spill out?

[Lagotrope]

Been a while since I've DF/KC'd. ...I've been Minecrafting. Sometimes with a Cutebold skin on my character.

Glad to see updates are still being done, though I'll have to get acquainted with the latest changes to know what's possible.

I thought I'd mention a few ideas I dreamed up, at the risk of repeating some ideas I posted in the previous thread:

Huh, I've been minecrafting too for awhile now. Not so much with a cutebold skin; that may change.

Atlatls and all sorts of aztec weaponry have already been implemented, actually. Ceramics, on the other hand, are a good idea. I'll also keep that in mind about the banded armor.

Personally I was making kobold camp to where the player didn't have to use self-restraint to limit themselves. There is of course nothing stopping anyone from overriding KC's material template with vanilla's to make mining possible again and doing it how they like. Even if I was half and half for or against letting kobolds mine I'd still likely include all the unmineable tags, because it's a lot easier to revert to vanilla over going through the whole file adding unmineable to everything.

Magical runes aren't bad fluff, but I'm not sure how modding would be plausible for it (namely if geometrical shapes are an available option, though they might be.)

Lastly, I think I actually changed the religion already. They worship pantheons now if I recall (things like jewels, farming, that kind of thing.) It's been awhile, I should make sure it didn't somehow get lost. If it's possible to worship titans, I may do that.

I haven't tried Kobold camp in a while, so I am looking forward to playing again. Two questions: First, can someone explain how to add Ironhand's Graphics to KC? I tried doing it and ended up ruining my folder. Second, do kobolds need to muddy grass to farm above ground? If so, does anyone have a better way of doing this than digging into the side of a pond and letting the water spill out?

Graphics... it's been so long since I've touched on them, I should imagine you can just add that graphic folder AFTER making sure to delete the current graphics. There should be some readme in ironhand's though (I should hope anyway, I've never used his.) Sorry I can't be much help for this one.
Secondly, I don't believe so, last I checked. It may help, but I've been able to make crops by just plowing over ground.

You say the vermin cooking recipe doesn't work?
Try this as the product:
   [PRODUCT:100:1:MEAT:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:MUSCLE]
From what I've seen, creature "meat" is actually muscle.

Thanks, I'll be giving this reaction a shot for a new version.

[Bronze Dog]

Yeah, I understand wanting to maintain an "official" sort of mod to quasi-enforce stone use and other tech-based limitations. I'm mostly just saying I'd diddle with appropriate tokens for my own version, so no one should take my posts here as anything other than my own vision.

Something else I considered doing with a personal version: IIRC, elves were pretty much the original attackers against kobolds, so I'd probably try to maintain that rivalry and come up with differences that would put the two against each other, and I think I've got my own personal fluff reasons for doing so:

Elves are arrogant: They think they're so superior. So many bad fantasy writers (and some good ones as well) have pretty much put elves as a Mary Sue race who end up acting in a condescending manner towards other races so that they can preach whatever the author wants them to.

Kobolds are humble: They know they're far from the best. They're small, weak, and technologically backwards. All the other races look down on them, either with contempt or pity. If they attract the malice of another race, it will be a struggle just to survive.

Elves live in the Disney version of nature: They don't cut down trees, animals never attack them, and Mother Nature just seems to give them a free pass on everything. They just spend their centuries of life frolicking in the forest, singing tra-la-la-li-laly.

Kobolds live in nature when it's red in tooth and claw: They have to hunt animals in the wilderness to survive, and any predator could pose a threat. They have limited ability to build shelters, and they can't simply raise crops because of their carnivorous nature. They have to earn their survival.

Elves are beautiful: This bit is inspired by Lorwyn elves from one of the Magic: the Gathering worlds. Those elves sought to beautify the world, and part of doing so meant killing off the 'eyeblights': Creatures who didn't measure up to their vision of beauty. Their free pass for survival has blinded them to the ugly truths other creatures have to face.

Kobolds have little use for beauty: Art falls by the wayside when survival is a struggle. Kobolds know the savage side of life, and when they do create art, it's unlikely to be the excessively tranquil sort.

One idea I'm thinking of to implement this rivalry is to give the elves the Baby Snatcher token: Some elves could consider it daring and fashionable to sneak into a kobold camp alone to capture pups and raise them like pets, and eventually, slaves. I suspect since elves don't die of old age, baby-snatching elves are less likely than goblins to end up being replaced by snatched races. It'd probably be a good idea for someone to test that. Of course, another concern that crops up is how the elves would fare against dwarves and humans if they're that much more likely to be at war.

---

Other thoughts:

A while back, I came up with an idea for a 'magic' profession where a kobold shaman or whatever would go into a custom workshop and use the Concentration skill to meditate or commune with the spirits and achieve some sort of effect. Unfortunately, I have no idea what sort of product would be a good output for the workshop.

On the engraved magic runes: I got the idea while I was looking over the raws. Apparently there are some categories of images that can be excluded or selected for each civ entity. I'd have to look things over again. It's either that, or preferred words for naming things. I might be mixing those things up.

[Verdian]

I copied over Ironhand's raws into the KC data and raw folders. Unfortunately, that seems to turn KC into a normal version of DF. I start with dwarves and have none of the unique kobold camp options. Any idea why copying graphics data is reverting the game back?

[atomicoctobot]

I like the idea of elven baby-snatchers. Elves in DF aren't angels, after all, and even if they were there would still be some bad apples. I'd definitely expect elves to have a few caged kobolds in their caravans.

As for mining stone; I think this would be against the spirit of the mod. Not being able to mine makes it much more a unique experience against vanilla.

Cool ideas, Bronze Dog!

[Trouserman]

I copied over Ironhand's raws into the KC data and raw folders. Unfortunately, that seems to turn KC into a normal version of DF. I start with dwarves and have none of the unique kobold camp options. Any idea why copying graphics data is reverting the game back?

Don't copy the entire raw folder.  The objects subfolder contains the raws that affect the gameplay.  Try just copying the graphics subfolder over.  That ought to give you the creature graphics.  If you want the rest of the tileset, for trees and stone types and all that, it will require a much more involved merging process, as those tile specifications are mixed in with the definitions in the objects folder.

[Mickey Blue]

This is probably a stupid question but can one revert the graphics in Kobald Kamp to standard ASCII graphics?

Great concept for a game by the way, having fun with it so far!

-MB

[Fayrik]

This is probably a stupid question but can one revert the graphics in Kobald Kamp to standard ASCII graphics?

That's actually surprisingly easy. Init.txt should have a line saying GRAPHICS:YES, if you change the YES to NO, it should work with ASCII again.

[Verdian]

Don't copy the entire raw folder.  The objects subfolder contains the raws that affect the gameplay.  Try just copying the graphics subfolder over.  That ought to give you the creature graphics.  If you want the rest of the tileset, for trees and stone types and all that, it will require a much more involved merging process, as those tile specifications are mixed in with the definitions in the objects folder.

Thank you for the advice. Unfortunately, the rocks and foliage are exactly what I wanted.  I'll just get use to the included graphics.

[Lagotrope]

Good idea on the part of elves. Honestly, I'm half surprised they don't baby hunt already given their other tendencies (cannibalism). The only qualm about it I have though is that they would almost certainly be at wars with humans and dwarves, and though it doesn't crush my own thoughts on fantasy, it does seem a bit weird. Maybe not so much reading your views on them Bronze, which I do like. I may test this out and consider it for the next version.

As for the idea of shamans using magic, I'd love to implement that lightly, although the raws are a bit limited as is. I could do something simple like using a big collection of kobold crafts as the reagent (say 15 as some random number, but it would be something to make it hard to keep casting back to back), and then have a small chance that you get some nice item you normally couldn't get easily or at all. It's mostly possible, except that ideally it would have a greater chance of success to get an item back the higher concentration the shaman had, but I don't believe there's anything like that. It's all a flat chance. Furthermore, I don't think there's any way to force it so that only shamans can do the reaction (it would fall on the player.)

On graphics.. I may change those later to a different graphics pack, since there's some things I like about the current but not the entirety. I haven't heard an ETA on 31.19, but if I make enough changes to KC then I'll upload it regardless of how I like updating it concurrently with new DF versions.

[Pathologik]

The only real issue I've noticed is that irksome bit with digging implements disappearing if you deselect them at embark. It's probably a pretty simple fix, just a missing entity tag, or something, but I can't figure it out for the life of me.