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[Sonlirain]

darkrider2, you obviously haven't played the A-20 if you say that there's a tank that's shittier than it :V

Also, yesterday, I took my awesome FV304 for a ride, and in one match I got a Kamikaze reward (killing a tank of a higher tier than you by ramming them and surviving yourself) with it, and of all tanks I killed a T7 arty by ramming him

Play the Medium III.
Seriously just play it and then bash the A-20.

[Rilder]

That feel, when your capping, at 98%, an IS-3 charges you and fires... he could easily pen me (Stock turret T32) but out of some blessing of the Great Belorussian Random he bounces. I literally cheered a triumphant "YES!"

[TheDarkStar]

I just got the AT-5. It's amazing how much stuff bounces off it and how decent the gun is. On the other hand, it's probably the slowest tank in the game (12 km/h!).

[Flying Dice]

The games fun, but maybe things like Camouflage could be cheaper/easier to get for a light tank, as it seems like it's rather required to be an effective scout.

Nah. Camo netting, like the binocular periscope and repair kit, isn't a tank-specific module; you can transfer them on and off of tanks at any time in the garage at no cost. Basically you buy a camo net, and you can put it on whatever tank you're about to play with. That aside, camo netting only functions while stationary. Keep in mind that scouts retain their camo value regardless of whether they're moving or not, so the real key is training up your crew and getting the camo skills. The only scouts you'd really want it on would be the ones that are too slow and shitty to scout actively, like the AMX 12t.

And no, there is nothing worse than the A-20 with scout matchmaking. Just like few things were better than the T-50-2, that glorious ahistorical hotdog.

[Rex_Nex]

My personal wish is that they'd remove Sixth Sense as a commander skill and give it innately to scouts. Sixth Sense in general is way too strong for a single perk, yet it's make-or-break for light tanks. Having them be the only people with Sixth would not only be a great quality-of-life change but also make scouting more useful since you can't just magically be notified when you're spotted. Plus I think Sixth Sense removes a certain element of skill that used to be involved in positioning yourself.

Wargaming naturally has other plans for scouts (I think they are going to end up with the same MM as everyone else), but I'm just sort of sad they never saw that as an alternative all these years.

[Mech#4]

The games fun, but maybe things like Camouflage could be cheaper/easier to get for a light tank, as it seems like it's rather required to be an effective scout.

Nah. Camo netting, like the binocular periscope and repair kit, isn't a tank-specific module; you can transfer them on and off of tanks at any time in the garage at no cost. Basically you buy a camo net, and you can put it on whatever tank you're about to play with. That aside, camo netting only functions while stationary. Keep in mind that scouts retain their camo value regardless of whether they're moving or not, so the real key is training up your crew and getting the camo skills. The only scouts you'd really want it on would be the ones that are too slow and shitty to scout actively, like the AMX 12t.

And no, there is nothing worse than the A-20 with scout matchmaking. Just like few things were better than the T-50-2, that glorious ahistorical hotdog.

Possibly I should ask "How should I scout?" Driving ahead of the pack mostly ends with me getting blown up in one hit. If I stay back and follow the heavier tanks, when combats joined I can pop around a corner to try and shoot at the enemy but my tracks get disabled and then I go kablooie to either other tanks of artillery.

[Rex_Nex]

Scouting is probably the hardest thing to learn to do well in this game.

If you're still playing the Pz III, just bear through it. It's not a great scout - it's fairly blind and doesn't have the camo to make up for it. Its more of a bad medium tank than a real scout, just focus on living when you're up against higher tiers and bully your peers around when you get the chance. Once you pass the Pz III, you'll be playing with a "real" medium, the III/IV.

[Flying Dice]

What Rex_Nex said  (especially in regard to why Sixth Sense needs to be changed around, heh). It depends on a massive number of variables--your tank, your team's tanks, the enemy tanks, the map, the map-wide tactical situation, the localized tactical situation, &c., and there is little to no forgiveness; if you fuck up you're almost certainly going to die. But basically the one thing you should never do is point towards the enemy base and open the throttle.

Generally though it'll break down into four main roles:
1. Passive scouting, aka bushscouting. This is where you sit, hide, and use your camo to light up targets for friendly tanks and arty.
2. Active scouting. This is where you drive around keeping tabs on the enemy team. You should generally try to avoid staying in line-of-sight to any given enemy for more than a second or two; the key is to pop in, light them, and move on before being shot. This also encompasses lighting targets by driving right up to their cover to abuse the minimum spotting range.
3. Arty-killing. If the other team gives you a gap in their lines that you think you can make it through, gun the engine and try to pick off their arty.
4. Harassing. This is for tanks like the French scouts, the Chaffee, the T-50-2's replacement, &c. that have guns good enough to penetrate mediums/TDs/maybe even some heavies from the right angles. Basically it's like active scouting, except you're looking for chances to flank enemy tanks and put shots into them. The goal here is to either do free damage to more important enemies or to draw their attention away from your own team. This can be accomplished either by sniping or getting in close and circling a lone enemy tank. The T-50-2 in particular was notorious because it was fast enough that only a bare handful of tanks it could be matched against could traverse their turrets quickly enough to catch one that was circling them, while also having a good enough gun to penetrate a lot of high-tier stuff from the rear/sides/weak spots.

But more than anything else, you have to have really good awareness both of what's going on around the map, and of your local situation, in order to be able to position yourself correctly. A lot of it (especially knowing when is right to charge in &c.) is a matter of practice.

Aside from that, always buy your engines first, radios second, and everything else after that.

[Sonlirain]

My personal opinion on medium taniks... they are useless.
People often say a med can kill a heavy without any problems but almost 100% of the time the first thing they say to do is tracking the heavy.
Whoop dee effing do because if we assumed that tracking is so quick and easy then mediums would be dead in the water because THEY are the ones more vulnerable when tracked due to bad armor and usually low penetration guns that rely on being to the heavies flank and in some cases even rear.

Another often cherished tactic is the "wolf pack" with 3 mediums running along and demolishing any tank they encounter.
Another problem because 3 tanks are always more than 1... but the battles are always 15 vs 15 (or less in the case of team battles) so if the medium pack is overruning a heavy tank in 2A their team is likely getting overran in another part of the map and if the medium wolf pack crashes into  an organized team of heavy tanks it's likely going to crash and burn due to being outgunned and outtanked.

I mean really... what's the point of them other than possible map control?

As for scouts in radom games... personally i stopped even noticing them because in most of the matches scouts are divided into 2 "clans".
1 - The numerous and brave YOLOnite clan that rushes into battle with unprecedented bloodlust and fury culled only by their inefective guns and low HP.
They usually die fast and without any tangible contribution to the team but sometimes when lightening strikes in the same spot 3 times in a row and Serb smiles they manage to kill a tank or two.  Moments like those are cherished by many a clanmate and sent in replay form as tribute to Jingles the Mighty.

2 - The far less numerous AFKaga clan who seek bushes moderately close to the places enemies MIGHT be. Once they plant theirselves in the shrubbery of their chosing they begin to meditate and disconnect from reality. Some say they attain the blessed state of redvana.

[Jopax]

Mediums have many roles, because they are so damn flexible for the most part. This, paired with their mobility makest them excellent support vehicles that can help any part of the map rather quickly, or even better, exploit any gaps in the enemy line to wreak havoc with their backlines or even their frontlines (you try focusing on the tanks in front of you when you've got a bastard smacking shells into your rear).

Another thing to note is that most mediums shouldn't be getting shot, you flank, you attack enemies who are busy, if you're trying to go toe to toe with heavies or TD's you're playing your tank wrong and will generally have a bad time (the only tanks forgiving in this regard would be the german E line since they're more heavies than mediums).

What's more, most mediums have DPM superior to heavies of the same tier, this means that if you can get into a favorable position (which your mobility should allow) you can be incredibly dangerous to anything.

[Sonlirain]

Mediums have many roles, because they are so damn flexible for the most part. This, paired with their mobility makest them excellent support vehicles that can help any part of the map rather quickly, or even better, exploit any gaps in the enemy line to wreak havoc with their backlines or even their frontlines (you try focusing on the tanks in front of you when you've got a bastard smacking shells into your rear).

Again in a perfect world i won't be alone and another tank (preferably a heavy) would be present and ready to smack the annoyance out of existence.
Also in this scenario i'm assumed to be alone against more than one tank and at this point i don't care if its a medium heavy or JgdE100 because the game was likely lost anyway.

Another thing to note is that most mediums shouldn't be getting shot, you flank, you attack enemies who are busy, if you're trying to go toe to toe with heavies or TD's you're playing your tank wrong and will generally have a bad time (the only tanks forgiving in this regard would be the german E line since they're more heavies than mediums).

Agan i could do the same in a fast heavy like the IS-3 or any of the higher tier frenchies and do more or less the same but with a ton more alpha damage. All in all medium taks do better than heavies is having a bit better hp/w ratio other than that everything mediums can do there is a heavy that does it better and with more punch.

What's more, most mediums have DPM superior to heavies of the same tier, this means that if you can get into a favorable position (which your mobility should allow) you can be incredibly dangerous to anything.

Again the higher DPM is archived via having a higher RoF and that means you have to stay exposed to use it to its fullest and more often than not you immediately get lit up after shooting so you have to scram or get hit by retaliatory fire you won't survive unless you're a hull down T-62A and there's no big gunned TDs aiming at you.

[Chosrau]

You are forgetting several key statistics here. Medium tanks usually have way better view ranges and track traverse then their heavy counterparts. They can actually disengage and create a gap if the enemy is pushing them too hard (which the IS-3 with its 40 km/h top speed an 27 d/s track traverse just can't).

They also have often have better gun parameters. Lower aimtime and higher accuracy means they have to expose themselves for a shorter amout of time when shooting. Their higher RoF means they can afford more snapshooting, as they don't suffer from missed shots as much, while an IS-3 that misses his shot is utterly defenseless for the next 13 seconds.

French heavies are basically mediums, just bigger. And the only thing the 50B can do better then a Batchat is taking one more hit from a tier 8 tank, on average.

Heavies are good, if they can get into position to use their strengths accordingly. Unlike mediums they just don't have the ability to get into such positions as easily.

[Sonlirain]

You are forgetting several key statistics here. Medium tanks usually have way better view ranges and track traverse then their heavy counterparts. They can actually disengage and create a gap if the enemy is pushing them too hard (which the IS-3 with its 40 km/h top speed an 27 d/s track traverse just can't).

I checked 5 random tanks on WoT wiki. E100 and E50M both have 400m sight range.
Panther (tier 7 medium) has 380 same as the Tiger (tier 7 heavy) that stands at 380 meters.

KV-13 (tier 7 med) has 360 while the IS (tier 7 heavy) has 350m.
The T-43 has however 370 viewrange so i guess 20 meters count as something but then... how often you get to spot targets at those rnages unobstructed by bushes and trees anyway?
I wouldn't call it a "lot" either way.
I could argue that mediums have a bit better camo rating tho.

They also have often have better gun parameters. Lower aimtime and higher accuracy means they have to expose themselves for a shorter amout of time when shooting. Their higher RoF means they can afford more snapshooting, as they don't suffer from missed shots as much, while an IS-3 that misses his shot is utterly defenseless for the next 13 seconds.

That depends on the gun and tank rather than class.
German heavies have similar gun characteristics to medums up to tier 9 at witch point the high RoF and accuracy guns ger replaced by a lower RoF higher alpha gun.
In fact most german heavy tank guns find their way to mediums a tier or two later.

[Flying Dice]

Your entire argument still seems to be oriented around the idea that mediums aren't as good at brawling as heavies. Medium players (save for those in certain mediums that are basically heavies) who try to play like heavies are as bad as scouts that drive straight into enemy lines or TDs that try to charge across open fields. It's a fundamental dysfunction linked with the nature of the game, I think; depending on your perspective a death is either a terrible fate to be avoided at all costs or a nonissue because you have a garage full of other tanks. It's rare indeed to find people who aren't suicidal but who are willing to take damage and die in order to put the enemy team at a disadvantage, even rarer for that to be combined with a basic understanding of how the tank they're in plays.

So yes, mediums do seem useless a lot of times--not because they're pointless, but because all drivers are equally stupid and medium drivers have less room for error than heavy drivers.

[Jopax]

Having a bigger viewrange is always better, regardless of what the enemy is hiding behind. This is due to the simple nature of how the camo system works. Any obstacle, camo or whatever which increases your camo basically works by reducing the enemy maximum spotting range by a given amount.

So if you have a camo net which gives you 25% camo bonus that means that instead of being spotted by a 400m viewrange enemy at 400m you will instead be spotted at 300m .

That's why it's good to have your spotting range go over the max 465m, because the camo reduces it from the max value so in the end you still have a better viewrange.

Furthermore, picking out random tanks to check their viewranges disregards several important things. One, not all nations have the same viewrange (most do converge at the 400m at tier 10 but most stuff is samey at that tier, guns especially), USSR for one have rather crappy viewranges across the board, with 'murricans in general having the best ones. Second, not all mediums and heavies have the same roles which is reflected on their viewrange among other things. The Tiger H and the Panther are both sniper tanks which gives them superior viewrange. The IS and the KV-13 are both brawlers and CQC specialist tanks which means that viewrange isn't as important for them.

Generally speaking though, viewrange is mostly important for spotters and not much else because the maps are tiny and you'll be within spotting range within a minute or so of the game starting anyways.

Ninja edit:
Pretty much, mediums are more flexible but much harder to use and less forgiving. Which is why most of the scary good players that I know drive mostly mediums, if you know what you're doing you can easily carry a match with a medium, mostly because you can be almost anywhere at a moments notice to help out. Heavies are much more forgiving but at the same time their power level caps out at a lower point than that of medium tanks.