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[sluissa]

Shooting TDs helps quite a bit... except the old high tier German group, most of them are pretty light on defense. If you keep getting shot by TDs, stop going where TDs are likely to be aiming. (And yes, that sounds almost exactly like advice to use against SPGs, difference is that if a TD is firing at you, you can usually fire back.)

This is extra true of the newer TDs which everyone thinks are all powerful. It's not that they're all that much better, they're just different, and people haven't learned to adapt yet.

[Jopax]

Have you played any T10 matches in the past few months? Because they're plagued by TD's that have either stupidly high damage or stupidly good armour, or in certain cases both. The problem arises here when you have five or so such TD's on a team. This means that suddenly, a large portion of the map is inaccessible, because the moment you make a misstep you get two or more 850+ damage shells in your face. You shoot back, you will most probably bounce, or you won't be able to shoot back because you won't actually see who shot you.

What all this leads to is stupidly passive and boring gameplay, the TD's wait for their easy kills and nobody wants to attack because they're instantly killed without any chance of retribution.

It's like arty a year ago, except now the arty is much more accurate, hits more reliably and is much much tougher to kill.

[Kiwi]

Also, if you think the new German TD line is balanced then... you haven't played against them i would assume.
The WT Auf E100 in the hands of anybody with any idea of how to use it is just insane.
It can kill any tank in the game by its lonesome in one clip with the 128.  That's just dumb IMO

[sluissa]

I've played a few, yes. And honestly? I just think people are stupid. Yes, the gun on the WT is scary... but at the same time the armor is so thin a loltractor can kill it given the opportunity.

As for the other TDs... they all have their downsides and except the WT and one American example that plays more like a heavy tank than a TD, they all are severely vulnerable to flanking. There are also very few maps where there aren't good ways to use the landscape to avoid the good TD spots.

I personally love to see TDs pop up (with the exception of the Jagd E100, although that's been around for a long time at this point and is a known tough nut) Because it's almost a guarantee I can get some good damage in if I'm patient, almost regardless of what tank I'm in.

[motorbitch]

im sure its a cooincidence.
no way wg.net would want you to spend real mony on xp conversion so you can have these td tomorrow too.

sarcasm and evil assumptions aside:
im sure they nerf them once enough ppl have payed enough money to unlock them quickly.

[Jopax]

Yes, they're vulnerable to being flanked, when they're alone. But the problem is, that they're rarely alone. When you do encounter a TD he will never be alone (unless he's stupidly stupid), it will be with a few other TD's or a mix of any tanks from his team. In which case you either back off, or get gibbed by the doomcannon.

Oh well, hopefully the nerf in 8.11 does its job.

[sluissa]

Hopefully you're not along either. Distract them from their front... (if you don't know how to do this without dying, learn) while someone else flanks... or use your idiot teammate's deaths to your advantage and flank. Work together. Yes, if you are trying to go head on against bad odds, you're going to die.

You might have an argument if everyone played perfectly all the time. Alpha damage and DPM will likely win out in those circumstances... luckily you've got human stupidity as a factor, and very few people play any good at all. Almost every non-terribly stupid odds situation in this game can be solved with a simple "play smarter." Are you going to outthink your way out of a situation I found recently where I was a Pz38nA in a match where 14 of the enemy team were tier 10? Hell no. But given somewhat even odds in the other areas, whoever plays smarter is very likely going to win.

[motorbitch]

your arguments where still valid if there was a tank with 0.1s reload time and 1000k damage.
it fails to make a point if these td are in line with the other tanks in game or not however.

[Flying Dice]

The issue there is that you're making the assumption that every (or even most) combinations of map and tactical situation will be conducive to flanking. I've been in plenty of situations where there flat out is no way to get around a strongpoint, leaving you with the choice of falling back and traveling the whole way around to the other side of the map, or holding position and hoping that they'll be stupid and rush or the rest of your team will manage to roll the other side.

In short, there are a lot of times where every option that isn't "keep dueling a superior enemy head-to-head" relies on other people acting in your favor.

[motorbitch]

wot isnt fair.
is not, was never. it is designed to make money and one feels it in every match.
now, its still fun and all, but its just pointless to complain that they introduce imbalances and create situations where you feel a certain disadvantage if you dont own the latest (most expensive) <premium> tank or use the most expensive ammunition.

[Sonlirain]

The thing about the new german line is the fact that as a TD you can HIDE and stay hidden. Armor means squat if noone can see you while a well placed scout lets you perforate enemy tanks one by one with high penetration and high damage shells.
And those things get autoloaders.

[Jopax]

Yeah, you gotta be god tier good to be able to salvage a win from 14 idiots. Now this is an extreme example but even 10 idiots are enough to bring a fight down as they lemming and die or uselessly camp. Heck, I've seen matches lost by three freaking tanks, simply because they were top three tanks who chose to camp instead of to help their team, and once the team was ovewhelmed they too fell to superior numbers.

And once again, the problem with top tier TD's is that they're extremely geared to the current meta of high alpha guns. Having the second best alpha damage per shot in the game, and the highest penetration to boot. The armor and accuracy is just an extra topping. Seriously, a single TD isn't a problem like I keep saying, it can be handled with some skill and luck, but it will leave you crippled or heavily damaged if you aren't extremely good/careful. The problem is that their OPness increases dramatically as their numbers rise.

If you have three TD's vs three heavy tanks, the heavy tanks will lose barring extreme luck. Since for the most part, the TD's have comparable HP and armour while having vastly better firepower.

[Flying Dice]

Don't forget the camo values. If even one of them is sitting behind concealment with a binoc periscope, they will pretty much always get the first round of shots, which just exacerbates the problem. It's bad enough that even with the TDs I'm keeping in my lineup for good, I'm willing to forgo other modules for the sake of a net and periscope. It's even worse with the turreted TDs (half of which are the new German TDs, the other half of which are a lead-up to one of the least flankable T10 TDs), because they can shift aim without moving.

[Sonlirain]

aaaand another silly game.
This time with a AT-2.
http://wotreplays.com/site/560763#self

I dealt more damamge than my entire team put together.
And i was the only one from my team to survive the entire match netting me a Steel Wall and winner XP.

AT-2 is just a joy to play sometimes.

[Jopax]

AT-8 on the other hand was rather shit for me. Having a platform comparable to the AT-2 in mobility, with the same gun but regularly facing T8 tanks?

Yeah, I suicide scouted every match because there was no way I was suffering trough that.

Heck, I even got a kill one time when a ballsy T69 brought me low and thought he could ram me to death. Oh how he was suprised when he found out that ramming an AT is comparable to driving into a concrete wall.