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[Chosrau]

The PTA on the other hand shaves off that crappy armor and gets another neat thing which is mobility

The added mobility on the PTA isn't really that useful, at least that is my impression after nearly 300 games in it. It doesn't make up for the other disadvantages over the Indienpanzer in any way.

You can't use the mobility to brawl in it, your utter lack of turret armour and horrid DPM(1950 with the top Gun) rules that out. You could use the stock gun, which gives you 2400 DPM with an upgraded turret, but that comes with it's own set of problems.

Using your speed to get in a nice forward hull down position at the start opf the game? While certainly fast enough for this, it's not possible because of the simple fact that the Leopard PTA has no Hull Down Position. It's lousy gun depression and quite low height have the effect that any kind of elevation between you and your enemy force you to expose your whole tank by coming over a ridge, if you wish to shoot at the enemy. And then you have to sit through the whole 2,3 second aimtime or you won't hit anything because of the horrible Aim Dispersion on the move.

[Rilder]

I was more referring to the fact that somewhere around 1/4 of the vehicles in game never existed and more than that never took part in combat.

There is only like one or two tanks in the game that could be argued as fiction. (Only the Jagpanzer E-100 of the top of my head[The E-100 itself is a real design though and its not that much of a stretch to think It would of eventually had a Tank destroyer varient made of it]) Though many of them were nothing more then blueprints and some were nothing more then some random design a tank designer at the time played around with but it never got anywhere, they are for the most part all real tank designs.

Take the LTP tank recently given out, it wasn't a tank that was prototyped but it was a full fledged tank design that some Lieutenant in the Red army came up with in the 1940s and submitted to his higher ups, obviously being worthy enough to be filed away instead of just being thrown out.

Do realize that the the Pre-war to post war/early cold war periods were a time period of quite extreme creativity when it came to tank designs, and just because a tank wasn't put into production does not mean it did not exist, and wargaming has done a lot to actually dig out and uncover a lot of tank designs and try to represent them. Hell the US national archives for example as been stated by Chieftain to be filled with classified documents referring to weapon, vehicle and equipment design of the era that are only classified because nobody bothered to ask for declassification of them.

[Sonlirain]

There are only a handfull of tanks that are "fantasy" tanks.
We can call WoT a fantasy game when they implement the "Pancernik".
http://world-of-kwg.livejournal.com/73809.html

I don't think they are taking this one seriously but they might add it one rainy day in 2015.

[Rex_Nex]

Another fantasy tank is the E-50M, and maybe the T110E4, last I checked the E4 never actually was supposed to have a rotating turret. Then there's the whole T28/T95 thing where they are the same exact tank.

Everything else is either 1. an actual tank of the period, 2. a prototype tank of the period, or 3. a conceptual/planned design of the period that never came to fruition.

[Sonlirain]

I think i should cut myself for not having replays turned on... seriously.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those hitbox mods help tremendously... and enemies that decided to come half of the map to get me instead of capping. (5 of them were at A2 when i got to their base)

I also got 40k credits but most of it went for ammo resuply...
Curse you unreasonable ammo costs!

[lastverb]

Those hitbox mods help tremendously...

They are not only good. They are also illegal.

[Sonlirain]

Those hitbox mods help tremendously...

They are not only good. They are also illegal.

Nope. Completely legal and approved by WG.
http://ftr-wot.blogspot.cz/2013/02/cheaters-beware-anti-cheat-software.html
"3D hitskins (which make tanks transparent and show the modules inside) - please note regular hitskins are NOT banned."

I might be lame but i'm not (officially) a cheater .

[sluissa]

I don't count protoypes and blueprints as real tanks. Work may have been put into designs, and the reason they were rejected might simply have been the bad luck of it landing on the wrong desk and getting filed away, but without actual battle experience (or at least extensive use in wargames. There's not always a war to use these things in, I suppose) we'll never know how they would have ended up.

Also look at the case of the KV-4. 20 different designs proposed for it, none ever decided upon, so wargaming just picked one out of the pile and declared it the winner.

The T1 and M6 US tanks never saw combat and were only produced in very limited numbers, and could arguably even be considered the same tank with upgrades. (and the M6E2A1 which is occasionally seen around as a premium tank was ONLY built to test the gun for the T29)

Nearly all of the non-US SPGs were just ideas thrown out there. And some of the vehicles which would more likely be classified SPGs have been given the tank or TD role. (I'm looking at you, Russian vehicles with the 152mm gun)

I would like to restate that I have no problem with these vehicles being in the game(well, aside from issues with SPGs from a gameplay standpoint), just that when they march out history as a reason for one decision or another, I can't help but think hypocrisy.

[Rolepgeek]

Well, you said yourself, you don't count prototypes and blueprints as real tanks. But if they only used tanks that had seen combat, the game would have a much smaller, and likely a far less balanced assortment of tanks.

[Jopax]

I think what's he saying, and what I agree with personally is that we're fine with unhistorical tanks and paper projects. But in those cases you can't go about justifying balancing decisions with "It's more historical this way"

That's a bullshit excuse that they keep using most of the time when they really have no justification for using it.

An online game should make its features and gamepley built around balance, not selective historical accuracy.

[Ant]

I think what's he saying, and what I agree with personally is that we're fine with unhistorical tanks and paper projects. But in those cases you can't go about justifying balancing decisions with "It's more historical this way"

That's a bullshit excuse that they keep using most of the time when they really have no justification for using it.

An online game should make its features and gamepley built around balance, not selective historical accuracy.

This. In addition, game has no such tanks as Firefly and Challenger, that were actually used widely and considered (at least in Firefly's case) as effective counter to their opposite numbers. But consider, T5/6 medium with 17pdr and only minor reduction in mobility and gun depression? A nightmare almost comparable to Type 59.

[sluissa]

I personally think the Challenger could fit in well at tier 6/7 and the Firefly wouldn't be out of place at tier 7/8.

You've already got the (arguably) overpowered 122mm gun on the kv-1s at tier 6, and the medium tier 8 T-44 gets essentially the same gun, just with an even lower rate of fire.

The tier 8 centurion is the first medium to get the 17 pounder as is. With the tier 7 Black Prince also getting it as a heavy.

I think those two will end up in the tree at some point. They'll probably wait to fill out the Chinese tree a bit more first though.

Personally I'd like to see the Archer TDs on the UK tree. The whole driving backwards things looks fun to play and is already implemented in some of their SPGs

[Rolepgeek]

The Firefly is the M4 with a larger gun, correct? I think they believe it covered by the fact that the M4 can get said gun. So it's still technically in the game.

[Ant]

Yeah, Shermie has big gun, but it ain't 17pdr... It's that damn 105. Fireflies were used by British from Normandy onwards(?), whereas Americans used 76mm series of guns as quick and dirty patchjob when they realized TD's weren't always there when enemy armor was.

Challenger I believe had turret armor lots thinner than Cromwell it was based upon, so it wouldn't fit as T7 even as TD. Also, Firefly as being based on stock Shermans would get shredded in T8. Probably, if implemented, is gold and has way lower firing speed related to BP and at T7. But yeah, they'd be nice to have at some point. And Archer's so silly it'd fit nicely into T6 as glass cannon.

[Jopax]

The Firefly would fit perfectly at T6 honestly. The 17pdr isn't that strong of a gun (seriously, the Konisch has only slightly worse stats) and would fit perfectly with the rest of the tank into a Sherman trifecta of sorts (Jumbo is the fat armoured bastard, E8 is the nimble flanking bastard and the Firefly is the superior firepower school of thought bastard).

But honestly, the one UK tank I'm looking forward to the most is a Chieftain prototype of sorts which while being mostly rumours still has a pretty strong case for appearing in the game.