Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7

Author Topic: Evolution  (Read 6210 times)

Realmfighter

  • Bay Watcher
  • Yeaah?
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2010, 12:13:27 am »

Carbon Dioxide is terrible.
Logged
We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

ChairmanPoo

  • Bay Watcher
  • Send in the clowns
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2010, 12:13:49 am »



That was Lamarckian Evolution, which I think was the first evolutionary hypothesis. Of course, it can easily be proven incorrect by somthing as simple as someone who's lost a limb having a child who posseses that limb.
It wasn't. There have been musings about evolution from the times of Classical Greece. Possibly even beyond, who knows. What Darwin did, that was new, was to take a scientific focus on the matter, basing his theory in his findings.




I'm generally against linguistic hygiene, but if we had to pick one way or the other I would suggest we keep law and theory and have people use hypothesis in place of theory in common speech.


I'm ChairmanPoo and I approve of this message
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 12:16:09 am by ChairmanPoo »
Logged
Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

Ricky

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ancient Wizard Dance.
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2010, 12:14:10 am »

I believe in "god used evolution to craft his world."

Because, seriously, God crafted humans in His image, and we're all lazy assholes. Why would he spend time manufacturing millions of animals when he could make a few micro-organisms, make a world (probably used toady's worldgen), and let history gen itself for a few hundred million years.

God's computer must be godly...


anyway, im gonna remove myself from this discussion now. for insurance reasons.
Logged
Ah, I wish I had been lucky enough to be scum.
I'd make such great scum...

fqllve

  • Bay Watcher
  • (grammar) anarcho-communist
    • View Profile
    • ufowitch
Re: Evolution
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2010, 12:15:21 am »

@Fqllve:
Hell yeah, that's just how crazily perfect those atoms randomly came together.

PERFECT.

The theory sort of endears itself to me because I always enjoy the element of chance. Like, if I hit these two rocks together, they could have a violent thermonuclear reaction that wipes out everything in a 600 mile radius. It's extremely, extremely, extremely, almost infinitely unlikely, but THERE'S ALWAYS THAT CHANCE ISN'T THERE

I never hit rocks together.

Simpsons Greeks did it.

Yeah, things that require nigh-impossible amounts of luck but are still physically possible are great. I dunno, I think it appeals to the part of me still searching for the miraculous. Like electron tunneling? Shit is badass.
Logged
You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
No using. That's not what freedom is for.

FuzzyZergling

  • Bay Watcher
  • Zergin' erry day.
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2010, 12:19:15 am »

yes, evolution makes sence, but in the direction humanity is heading, when are humans going to reach the peak evolution stage and then start devolving?
Never. There is no such thing as devolution or peak evolution. A species will always evolve in the manner that allows for better survival in their changing enviorment. If the change is too radical, the species in question may go extinct instead.
it seems as if humanity has evolved around us, turning us into soft, meat sacks.
does it hurt to walk on rocks? buy shoes!
 
is it hot in the summer? turn up the air!
 
dont wanna read Moby Dick? watch the movie!
We're still not technically "devolving", any evolution in any direction would still be "forward".

To answer the thread starter, I believe in evolution completely.
Utterly.
Very little deviation from a cornacopia of assuredness.
Logged

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2010, 12:22:34 am »

Like, if I hit these two rocks together, they could have a violent thermonuclear reaction that wipes out everything in a 600 mile radius. It's extremely, extremely, extremely, almost infinitely unlikely, but THERE'S ALWAYS THAT CHANCE ISN'T THERE
Unless the rocks are made of plutonium or uranium and are being smashed together at a few hundred miles per hour, I am fairly certain what you are describing is in fact impossible. Perhaps not, as I don't have the greatest of knowlage on nuclear physics, but I'm fairly certain.

it seems as if humanity has evolved around us, turning us into soft, meat sacks.
does it hurt to walk on rocks? buy shoes!
 
is it hot in the summer? turn up the air!
 
dont wanna read Moby Dick? watch the movie!
 
...
How much do you really know about evolution?
While some traits will start to vanish due to our technology, have no doubt, it's because our technology has made those traits useless to us. At the same time, average height and brain size have been increasing over the past few thousand years, as those are useful traits to possess.

Air is also terrible.
Getting worse, too. Oxygen levels are decreasing, carbon dioxide is increasing.

Very, very slowly, of course, but still.
I assure you, we'll have a way to deal with that before it threatens our inhabitation of Earth. Hell, we could probably deal with it now if we had to, but it would be a struggle.


Behavioral evolution, in a sense. It turned out that around the time we figured out how to do that whole agriculture thing, it was easier to adapt our behavior than our bodies to our surroundings. Since our bodies no longer are really relevant to our survival and reproduction, they've kind of gone to shit and that's why most of us can no longer chase a boar until it drops dead of exhaustion. It's not the same process (in that it's not genetically based), but it's still a type of evolution (those behaviors that are beneficial will inherently outproduce those that are not, over time, on average).
Almost (excluding those with health issues) every human on this planet still has the potential to be a persistance hunter, you just have to train your body to do so. We still remain in second place for muscle density out of all the species on this planet, beaten out only by the chimpanzee.

These traits might end up breeded out some day, but that day will be very far away. In an evolutionary timescale, all of human history is nothing more than a small blip in time, where we've seen only the slightest changes in our species since the earliest human fossils we can find. I think it is far more likely we will be able to maintain or improve our physical attibutes as they are through genetic enginering far, far before losing them becomes a real threat to us.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

kuro_suna

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2010, 12:26:52 am »

Like, if I hit these two rocks together, they could have a violent thermonuclear reaction that wipes out everything in a 600 mile radius. It's extremely, extremely, extremely, almost infinitely unlikely, but THERE'S ALWAYS THAT CHANCE ISN'T THERE
Unless the rocks are made of plutonium or uranium and are being smashed together at a few hundred miles per hour, I am fairly certain what you are describing is in fact impossible. Perhaps not, as I don't have the greatest of knowlage on nuclear physics, but I'm fairly certain.

If enough of the rock nuclei simultaneously quantum tunneled through each others coulomb barrier as they hit each other it could happen though it depends on if quantum mechanics are truly random or the product of a internal variable we can't currently observe.
Logged

Argembarger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Not quite yet
Re: Evolution
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2010, 12:29:32 am »

As a different example, one of my favorites: that at some moment, every molecule of air surrounding you could just decide to randomly bounce away from you, leaving you suffocating in a vacuum pocket of nothingness.

Not impossible, just improbable on a scale that is unimaginable.
Logged
Quote from: penguinofhonor
Quote from: miauw62
This guy needs to write a biography about Columbus. I would totally buy it.
I can see it now.

trying to make a different's: the life of Columbus

IronyOwl

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nope~
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2010, 12:32:03 am »

How much do you really know about evolution?
While some traits will start to vanish due to our technology, have no doubt, it's because our technology has made those traits useless to us. At the same time, average height and brain size have been increasing over the past few thousand years, as those are useful traits to possess.
I believe height, at least, is more an issue of improved diets.


These traits might end up breeded out some day, but that day will be very far away. In an evolutionary timescale, all of human history is nothing more than a small blip in time, where we've seen only the slightest changes in our species since the earliest human fossils we can find. I think it is far more likely we will be able to maintain or improve our physical attibutes as they are through genetic enginering far, far before losing them becomes a real threat to us.
Bear in mind, degeneration is a lot faster than evolution. Getting to the point where no humans could survive in the wild would indeed take a long, long time, but getting to the point where a fair percentage couldn't is much faster.
Logged
Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

kuro_suna

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2010, 12:33:52 am »

Its also possible for every atom in your body to simultaneous undergo atomic decay causing you to instantly vaporize into a flash of photons and loose electrons and protons.
Logged

Argembarger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • Not quite yet
Re: Evolution
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2010, 12:35:24 am »

Pay very close attention to your breathing. Count your heartbeats.

The forces of chance and chaos in the universe might just decide that that one, right there, shall be your last.

However, on the bright side, your death will excite many statisticians and probabiliticians (lolwat madeupword) for years.
Logged
Quote from: penguinofhonor
Quote from: miauw62
This guy needs to write a biography about Columbus. I would totally buy it.
I can see it now.

trying to make a different's: the life of Columbus

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2010, 12:38:24 am »

It's also "possible" that a very large group of positrons, antiprotons, and antineutrons will suddenly be forced into existance and form a cloud of antihydrogen that will then react with nearby normal matter and destroy your entire country in a sudden release of energy, but that isn't ever going to happen either.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

FuzzyZergling

  • Bay Watcher
  • Zergin' erry day.
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2010, 12:40:05 am »

Just because something is useful does not mean that it is evolutionally selected for.
That said, things that are not useful (in an environment like a cave, these would include eyes and pigmentation) seem to disappear incredibly fast (by our standards).


@MetalSlimeHunt: Don't jinx us, bro.
Logged

Realmfighter

  • Bay Watcher
  • Yeaah?
    • View Profile
Re: Evolution
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2010, 12:41:32 am »

Thousands of tone of gold will never ever ever randomly appear at my feet.

Ever Ever.
Logged
We may not be as brave as Gryffindor, as willing to get our hands dirty as Hufflepuff, or as devious as Slytherin, but there is nothing, nothing more dangerous than a little too much knowledge and a conscience that is open to debate

fqllve

  • Bay Watcher
  • (grammar) anarcho-communist
    • View Profile
    • ufowitch
Re: Evolution
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2010, 12:42:56 am »

If it ever did, you will be happy to know it will all immediately be worthless.
Logged
You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
No using. That's not what freedom is for.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7