Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[IronyOwl]

I doubt he'll be able to come up with anything really convincing, especially since unless he's a sorc or something he won't really be able to answer for any of Jet's irregularities, but I'd still like to hear what he has to say. If nothing else it'll give us something to think about tomorrow if we're wrong.

[KaminaSquirtle]

I doubt he'll be able to come up with anything really convincing, especially since unless he's a sorc or something he won't really be able to answer for any of Jet's irregularities, but I'd still like to hear what he has to say. If nothing else it'll give us something to think about tomorrow if we're wrong.

Yep.  I unvoted mostly as a courtesy.  Chances are he'll get that vote right back unless he comes up with something really good.

[Zathras]

Sorry it took me a little while to catch up. Is there really only one scum left? And you guys think it was JetSquirrel/is me? It seems there's plenty of room for a mislynch to try it out, isn't there?

Zathras.

Now, I know for a fact that I'm not scum, but JS's play was generally bad, scummy, and lurky, so I don't blame you guys for jumping at his throat. A mislynch of me will not impact town's ability to win too badly, I think, so I'm OK with that; I also win when the town wins even if I'm dead. The main argument against JS at the moment seems to be this post, where he thinks Green is confirmed scum school. It clearly isn't, and his thinking is indubitably faulty, but see it from his point of view: he did support blue N1, as directed by Jim's (fucking goddamned) plan. This does mean that the scum apprentice didn't support his own school; switching to another one instead. His error was in assuming that they switched to the actual scum school instead of away from it. So yeah, dumb, but lynching me just for that?

Meh. As I said, town has enough room for a mislynch today, and I still win when town wins, so I'm OK with it if you guys think, but I'd urge you to think it through more carefully before everyone jumps on the wagon.


Some items point to JS/me not being scum, though, and I'd like those voting me to address them:
- JS voted Mr.Person early on Day 1 and stayed there thoughout; JS is not the bussing type.
- He went far out of his way to call out Person for lurking; I doubt he'd do that to his scumbuddy.
- Person was likewise voting JS most of the game. (most of D1, and immediately on D2, though he did switch at the end)
- JS did support Jim's plan (I got his PMs).
- See this post by IronyOwl, it tells much of the JS story.


Bussing is always a risky strategy for scum, and having only two members, I'd see it as impossible that JS and MrP were bussing each other.


I would, however, like to hear who the second scummiest choice is for people who are voting me, and to hear suspicions from those who haven't voted.

In my reading, I'm thinking the last scum is one of:
Jokerman: his voting patterns, his blatant coming back from lurking at the end of day 2 only to distance himself from Mr.Person as he was obviously about to hang... but still didn't vote him.
Toaster: he avoided Person altogether; and his passiveness so far in the entire game is consistent with what I know of his scum game.

Of these two, Toaster is the scummier for me, but it could be either one. If the wagon on me dwindles, I will switch my vote to one of them. What are people's current opinions/reads on them?

I'm on the fence about Lemon & Kamina, and I'm pretty sure IronyOwl is town.


Also, I feel I have to add:

Jim Groovester:  You haven't mentioned the The Fucking Goddamn Plan©.  Have you decided it was a bad idea, or are you trying something different?

That depends. Am I going to get an endless amount of shit for trying something?

Fucking hell. I mean, goddamn, that was some stupid fucking goddamn stupid shit last game. Yeah, that's right, it was double stupid, and double goddamn.

Sorry man, I got here too late. I can still give you posthumous shit if you'd like, but it would be too one sided as you can't respond.  8-P


Finally, MOD: I will support Green school tonight. Is this enough, or do I still need to PM you?

[IronyOwl]

The main argument against JS at the moment seems to be this post, where he thinks Green is confirmed scum school. It clearly isn't, and his thinking is indubitably faulty, but see it from his point of view: he did support blue N1, as directed by Jim's (fucking goddamned) plan. This does mean that the scum apprentice didn't support his own school; switching to another one instead. His error was in assuming that they switched to the actual scum school instead of away from it. So yeah, dumb, but lynching me just for that?

This had occurred to me, and I knew you'd be savvy enough to think of it. I was curious as to JS's reasoning, however.

What gets me about it, however, is that he would, for lack of a better word, panic that much. It really did seem like a "Guys I did this so I can't be scum!!!" type of post, partially because he mentioned it at all, partially because he claimed it confirmed green as scum, but partially because of the way it was worded. I'm not sure I'd expect JS to be that nervous as town.

- JS voted Mr.Person early on Day 1 and stayed there thoughout; JS is not the bussing type.

Yes, but he is the type to run out of things to do/say. It wouldn't surprise me if he'd avoid his scumbuddy like the plague, but it also wouldn't surprise me if Person, who I imagine would have only contempt for his abilities, would tell him to go after him to create WIFOM/clear him when JS inevitably got lynched. It also wouldn't surprise me if JS focused on Person because Person was his scumbuddy, and therefore the only one he was really paying attention to.

- He went far out of his way to call out Person for lurking; I doubt he'd do that to his scumbuddy.

As I noted, this seems strange, but maybe he didn't want to be seen as dropping it. I have to admit, it's difficult to find a probable cause for this one.

- Person was likewise voting JS most of the game. (most of D1, and immediately on D2, though he did switch at the end)

That was mostly explainable for bandwagoning and lurking. Person, or the Person I'm familiar with, isn't a very patient or forgiving person, and I can see him thinking JS would be more use being bussed than as an actual scumbuddy.

- JS did support Jim's plan (I got his PMs).

Hrm. We only have your word for that, but it's true JS supported it in public. I'm not sure that's really a towntell though, especially if we assume scum was savvy enough to go along with it to avoid suspicion.

Bussing is always a risky strategy for scum, and having only two members, I'd see it as impossible that JS and MrP were bussing each other.

This is true, but again, I can see Person being very displeased with having JS as a buddy.

I would, however, like to hear who the second scummiest choice is for people who are voting me, and to hear suspicions from those who haven't voted.

Honestly, Toaster's been bugging the hell out of me; I seriously considered mentioning it in case I didn't make it tonight, but felt like if he is scum we should be able to figure it out normally. Also I've been wrong about Nirur and (I think) Kamina.

He's lurky. I know that's sort of normal for him, but he's been doing very little. He didn't attack Person at all until he was fairly deep in the hole, at which point he simply noted that he was second on his list. He was also voting the only other person who could get lynched aside from Person, but that's pretty circumstantial.

To be perfectly honest, the main thing making me think Toaster isn't scum was this, which would be a good way to look active but was also helpful in getting things moving. It doesn't seem like he'd have much interest in getting us out of the doldrums if he was scum.

Jokerman: his voting patterns, his blatant coming back from lurking at the end of day 2 only to distance himself from Mr.Person as he was obviously about to hang... but still didn't vote him.
Toaster: he avoided Person altogether; and his passiveness so far in the entire game is consistent with what I know of his scum game.

Of these two, Toaster is the scummier for me, but it could be either one. If the wagon on me dwindles, I will switch my vote to one of them. What are people's current opinions/reads on them?

Jokerman's seemed lurky but not scummy. Then again, I haven't been paying him a ton of attention, and I guess his late-day comments could have been distancing. What is it about his voting pattern that strikes you as scummy?

I suppose there's also this to incriminate him, but in terms of convenient slipups I think Toaster wins out (plus more lurkiness).

Finally, MOD: I will support Green school tonight. Is this enough, or do I still need to PM you?

You seem rather eager to let us know you'll be supported Green like a good little townie. This seems somewhat at odds with your supposed ambivalence about being lynched.

[JanusTwoface]

>>> Vote Count <<<

Day Ends in ~ 22 hours
3 Dec 2010 @ 5 pm EST

Notes
Apprentices: Send me your assists before the day ends.
There are no outstanding activity warnings.

Zathras	(6)	- IRONYOWL, AVATAR OF LIFE, Jokerman-EXE, lemon10, Toaster, Zathras
IronyOwl	(0)	-
Jokerman-EXE	(0)	-
KaminaSquirtle	(0)	-
lemon10	(0)	-
Toaster	(0)	-

Not Voting: KaminaSquirtle

Finally, MOD: I will support Green school tonight. Is this enough, or do I still need to PM you?

All actions (spells, assists, and nightkills) should be PMed or in a Quick Topic (if that applies) rather than the main thread unless specifcally stated otherwise.

Essentially, I don't want people to have the ability to self-confirm by posting an action in the main thread and something happening (granted, that isn't the case with assists, but consistency is nice).


Let me know if I missed anything.

[Zathras]

What gets me about it, however, is that he would, for lack of a better word, panic that much. It really did seem like a "Guys I did this so I can't be scum!!!" type of post, partially because he mentioned it at all, partially because he claimed it confirmed green as scum, but partially because of the way it was worded. I'm not sure I'd expect JS to be that nervous as town.

I wouldn't want to presume to know his inner thoughts, but I think it was because he honestly thought he found a hidden truth, and was excited about it. He hasn't been a very successful player, so if he though he found a shiny new thing, he'd be liable to yell "hey guys! look! I found something! I'm not as stupid as you guys think! I'm useful! looook!"

To be perfectly honest, the main thing making me think Toaster isn't scum was this, which would be a good way to look active but was also helpful in getting things moving. It doesn't seem like he'd have much interest in getting us out of the doldrums if he was scum.

I'd see that as a null tell. I've seen him do similar both as town and scum, and he does like games where he plays to be active (though he's not that active himself, he'll push it if needed). Do note, however, that his question to Person there was not a scumhunting question, but rather a hypothetical about strategy.

Jokerman: his voting patterns, his blatant coming back from lurking at the end of day 2 only to distance himself from Mr.Person as he was obviously about to hang... but still didn't vote him.
Toaster: he avoided Person altogether; and his passiveness so far in the entire game is consistent with what I know of his scum game.

Of these two, Toaster is the scummier for me, but it could be either one. If the wagon on me dwindles, I will switch my vote to one of them. What are people's current opinions/reads on them?

Jokerman's seemed lurky but not scummy. Then again, I haven't been paying him a ton of attention, and I guess his late-day comments could have been distancing. What is it about his voting pattern that strikes you as scummy?

His tirade against Person day two without voting him was quite telling, but specifically on voting patterns: a) his avoiding voting at all during most of day one, finally landing on Criptfeind as third on a wagon, going back into lurking (posted only once after that) and staying there until the lynch; b) Day two, again waited to vote, jumped on JS as third vote again (numerically; second person on it, but nurir's vote was double), then back to lurking: he didn't come out until it was time to distance himself from Person (who was obviously going to hang), but kept his vote on JS; c) Day three, same story. Only post of the day was his third-on-bandwagon vote on me. There is a clear running theme here.

[KaminaSquirtle]

I think Zathras makes good points about Jokerman and Toaster.  However, even he admits Jet was scummy as hell.  Ironyowl beat me to the punch as to why Zathras is still scum.
I'll consider Zathras's points if he somehow flips town.

[Zathras]

With Janus's blessings, a Public Service Announcment:

Havin' a hard time try'na find the lurkin' scum? Searchin' through the thread seems really dumb?
Well, come here partner, I got the thing for you. It's the LurkerTracker, all shiny and new!

No longer do ya have to search the entire thread, Just to remember that some random guy is dead.
The LurkerTracker can do it for you, no need to look. Now you can go an' do other things, like learn to cook!

-- Org, Great Poet.

LurkerTracker^®

IronyOwl has 31 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: jetsquirrel. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31]
Jokerman-EXE has 15 posts; the last 18 hours ago. Red text: Zathras Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]
KaminaSquirtle has 31 posts; the last 5 hours ago. Red text: Unvote Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31]
Toaster has 27 posts; the last 27 hours ago. Red text: Jetsquirrel. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27]
Zathras has 23 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Zathras Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23]
lemon10 has 18 posts; the last 23 hours ago. Red text: Jetsquirrel/zathras Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18]

Criptfeind: dead, town apprentice has 16 posts; the last 240 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]
Jim G. the Red: dead, town sorcerer has 47 posts; the last 241 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46][47]
Mr.Person the Blue: dead, dark sorcerer has 17 posts; the last 170 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17]
Nirur Torir: dead, town apprentice has 40 posts; the last 72 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40]

Moderator has 23 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23]
Replacements considered: Jetsquirrel => Zathras.
The Morgue: Nirur Torir: dead, town apprentice; Criptfeind: dead, town apprentice; Mr.Person the Blue: dead, dark sorcerer; Jim G. the Red: dead, town sorcerer.
Notes:
1) Apologies for the poetry on top, but these games are supposed to have some poetry, dammit! Also, I loved the irony of dropping an Org gem into a Janus' game.  >8-)
2) The RedTextFinder is still experimental, but better than before. Let me know if you see something out of place.
3) Current up to my last post.
4) Sorry, but having it makes it much easier to find the elusive posts when reviewing; and if I'm using it, I can't in good conscience keep it to myself, can I? If you really object, let Janus know, and he'll make me stop.

[Zathras]

I think Zathras makes good points about Jokerman and Toaster.  However, even he admits Jet was scummy as hell.

I do, on both counts. However, don't just show up to vote me and go! do give your opinions on those good points you mention, answer my earlier questions about other people you find scummy, and if you really think JS/me is scum, address the points about his interactions with Person and Jim.

Popping in to vote and leaving again is not useful. There's still a day to go until the deadline; it's likely I'll hang regardless (and that will give my other points more weight when I flip town), but that's no reason not to look at everything else and use the time wisely, yes?

[KaminaSquirtle]

I think Zathras makes good points about Jokerman and Toaster.  However, even he admits Jet was scummy as hell.

I do, on both counts. However, don't just show up to vote me and go! do give your opinions on those good points you mention, answer my earlier questions about other people you find scummy, and if you really think JS/me is scum, address the points about his interactions with Person and Jim.

Popping in to vote and leaving again is not useful. There's still a day to go until the deadline; it's likely I'll hang regardless (and that will give my other points more weight when I flip town), but that's no reason not to look at everything else and use the time wisely, yes?

I'd love to go through all that, but I've got a test tomorrow, and I really need to spend the rest of tonight studying.  I'm almost 100% sure I'll have time to go over all your points tomorrow before day end though.

[Toaster]

Sorry it took me a little while to catch up. Is there really only one scum left? And you guys think it was JetSquirrel/is me? It seems there's plenty of room for a mislynch to try it out, isn't there?

Zathras.

Now, I know for a fact that I'm not scum...

-snip-

Desperate gambit to get out of the lynch today.

Toaster: he avoided Person altogether; ...

Bullshit.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1742126#msg1742126
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1746203#msg1746203
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1747547#msg1747547
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1750381#msg1750381

That last one should especially hammer the point home that you're full of it.

[Zathras]

Toaster: he avoided Person altogether; ...

Bullshit.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1742126#msg1742126
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1746203#msg1746203
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1747547#msg1747547
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70481.msg1750381#msg1750381

That last one should especially hammer the point home that you're full of it.

Bullshit right back at you. These are the contents of those oh so piercing attacks of yours to Person: "did the night turn out as you expected?", "Why don't you vote them?", "Why don't you press them?", and the last one, oh so hammering the point: "You are next on my list" (though you never actually voted him). Hardly legendary, is it? I maintain that you pretty much avoided him the entire game; OK, you directed one or two innocuous paragraphs at him, but no real hunting. Almost like you had a vested interest.

But never mind about this; what do you think about my points on Jokerman? Only one of you two is scum, and I'm not sure which, so I may be reading too much in your treating Person with kid gloves. I am interested in your thoughts about my read on Jokerman, and if you are sure you want to vote me, also on your thoughts on the interactions between JS and Person I listed earlier; do you really think JS would attempt to bus Person? or that his challenging him for lurking is consistent with his being his scum-sorcerer-buddy?

[Jokerman-EXE]

Jokerman: his voting patterns, his blatant coming back from lurking at the end of day 2 only to distance himself from Mr.Person as he was obviously about to hang... but still didn't vote him.

This...is a joke, right?

For one thing, my "blatant" coming back from lurking? I'm sorry, next time I come back from lurking I'll make sure to sneak into the thread so I don't startle you.

Distance myself from Mr.Person as he was about to hang...yeah, that's one way to look at it. Conveniently, that way ignores the fact that I was voting your predecessor instead of Mr.Person. And, as you're so quick to point out, Mr.P was going to hang anyway, whether or not I voted him. So I was making a point - that I thought Jet was scum. Congrats, you've inherited his scummitude.

You're trying to draw attention to your "read" on me? It was two lines, and you're pushing it like some kind of big deal. I just disproved the entire thing - again, only two line - so you should think of another reason why you're not scum. I don't see how anyone could buy this one.

[Zathras]

Distance myself from Mr.Person as he was about to hang...yeah, that's one way to look at it. Conveniently, that way ignores the fact that I was voting your predecessor instead of Mr.Person. And, as you're so quick to point out, Mr.P was going to hang anyway, whether or not I voted him. So I was making a point - that I thought Jet was scum. Congrats, you've inherited his scummitude.

Yes, you were making a point, but not that one. You were being careful to be seen as attacking Person, as you knew he would flip scum, so it was necessary for you to have some history with him. There's not much else before that. But yes, you were quick to jump on the JS bandwagon day two (and three), just as you were on the Criptfeind bandwagon on day one. I'm sure he was scummy too.

You're trying to draw attention to your "read" on me? It was two lines, and you're pushing it like some kind of big deal. I just disproved the entire thing - again, only two lines

Only two lines there; I elaborate further down in my note to Irony. Ignoring it is not disproving it: you have been reluctant about voting every day, and only committed yourself once a wagon had formed, then promptly disappeared for the rest of the day (except for taking care to be distanced from Person before he flipped). You have disproved nothing.

- so you should think of another reason why you're not scum. I don't see how anyone could buy this one.

I have, a number of them regarding interactions between JS and Person, which you conveniently have not addressed. I explicitly ask those who are voting me to review them and give opinions. So far, only IronyOwl has done so. You and Toaster came in, briefly looked at my evidence, dismissed it, and left again. Hardly a fair shake, yes? Almost like you don't want to answer them.

I also ask you: who else is scummy? Or is it only me, can only be me, and the game will be over 100% for sure when I hang? Have you considered the possibility of someone else being scum? If so who and why?


Also, while we are talking about you, I would like to review your only other post this day again:

I don't see why we haven't lunched Zathras already; regardless of his replacing in for Jet, I don't believe Jet was playing like town even disregarding his noobishness. It didn't feel like town play at all, and it's because he was scum.

I'm not about to defend his playstyle, but I happen to know he was town. What specific evidence do you have for him being scum "disregarding his noobishness", as you say? The point about the Green school I addressed earlier, but again only Irony was engaged enough to respond to it. Any other actual evidence, rather than his generally sloppy playstyle?

He had the second most votes yesterday, so I'm not the only one that thought so.

He was voted by only you and Toaster [1]. "Not the only one", sure, but hardly a consensus. What has changed between yesterday and today? Why are Irony, Lemon & KS jumping to agree with Jokerman/Toaster? Is it the green school thing again, or is there anything else?

We hit scum yesterday; let's do it again today and finish what we started yesterday.

Interesting wording. "We" didn't hit scum: IronyOwl and Nirur hit scum. You were voting JS. These many "we" and "let's do it!" are scummy. "Go team" rhetoric is an attempt to ingratiate yourself to town, taking credit for other's victories, with the purpose of making yourself look town even though you have not done anything in favour of town: you lynched Cript, and failed to even vote for Person. What have you done for town?

You are almost surely the scum left.

[lemon10]

Yesterday lots of people thought he was scum, but they thought that person was more scummy, so they voted person. with person dead, you/jet is now in first place.
I'm agreeing because the scummiest person is dead, i couldn't really get on yesterday (so i was lurking all day two), and upon reading the thread i see that jet was the scummiest person in my opinion.
Everyone is jumping on jet now because the other suspect is dead, only 3 people didn't vote jet or person. Jet, person and me, because i was lurking and didn't have time to read the thread (so my vote would have been uninformed and random), person because he was scum, and jet because i think he was scum to.

Also, jet voting blue is a pretty big thing. yeah, the scum apprentice maybe voted green/red, but i find that unlikley, especially since the chance of him being found out is about 0%.