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[IronyOwl]

Unvote Nirur.

Mr.Person, why so quiet? What do you think of Criptfeind's OMGUS?


Jim, your plan is terrible unless you get very clever with it- specifically, if you give only a very small set of people one color, so it's more obvious if they don't use it/others also use it. Even then it could be hard to tell what had happened and why.

In terms of getting people to send in their assists, I don't see what advantage it has over just pestering them by PM, which I wholeheartedly approve of, by the way.

[KaminaSquirtle]

So I'll ask everybody, what do you think of my plan, and would you be willing to go along with it? If you're not, be ready for me to badger you individually about sending in your support, because it's important.
-From a earlier post-
I've got an idea for sending PMs out to people with a color for them to support. I don't think this would help the rest of the town out too much, since only I would know which color was sent to whom, and then it would be up to me to figure out who was fake claiming. But at the very least, it would get people off their asses and actually send in a support.

Don't like the plan at all Jim Groovester, although it would help you find out who the sorcerers are (scum apprentices still get to vote right?), and encourage people to vote, if you were scum, finding out who the sorcerers were would be a really big help for you.

You seemed to have voted Jim awfully quick after Cript did, and really have no argument.  Why so quick to bandwagon, lemon10?

On the plan:
I don't think it'll help.  The combined effect of the sorcerers would make it very difficult to determine anything about the scum.
Of course, if it's just to get people to actually support, then I'm all for that.

KaminaSquirtle, now that you've got your answer out of Jetsquirrel, what are you going to do now?

Begin applying pressure to people who look scummy to me.

[lemon10]

-SNIP-
You seemed to have voted Jim awfully quick after Cript did, and really have no argument.  Why so quick to bandwagon, lemon10?

I didn't care who cript voted for, if he hadn't voted for jim i would have still voted for him, i voted for jim because i think he's scummy.

And did you send it in before I asked you about it?

Assuming your asking me, no, but i don't see how it matters weather i send it in a minute before the day ends or 2 days. Yeah if i wait to send it in i could forget, but i won't and wouldn't.

[KaminaSquirtle]

I didn't care who cript voted for, if he hadn't voted for jim i would have still voted for him, i voted for jim because i think he's scummy.

Why?  You can't just vote someone without giving a reason.
Well, you can, but you can't expect to convince anyone that way.

[Toaster]

Ehhh not shit sherlock? i know that town cant nk. But we could do a thing if Person A gets nked that Person B will have to be scum, but thats what i thought at THAT moment. I got some other plan right now.

Trying to figure out the scum by who gets NKed is a one way trip to WIFOM land.

Jim:  I think you're wasting your time with your plan as originally stated, and you'd be better served by posting a "Send in your assists" reminder in giant bold orange text.  FYI, I have already sent my assist- I did it early since I can't imagine anything actually happening today that would make any one choice better than an arbitrary one.


Lemon:  Why not send it now?  You can change it before day end.  Also, what do you expect to hear that could make you change your mind?

[Jim Groovester]

And did you send it in before I asked you about it?

Assuming your asking me, no, but i don't see how it matters weather i send it in a minute before the day ends or 2 days. Yeah if i wait to send it in i could forget, but i won't and wouldn't.

Yes, I'm asking you. If somebody posts immediately after you without quoting you, you can probably assume that they're talking to you.

And I asked you that question because I'm proving a point. You had to be prompted to send in your assist. This is the point of what I'm proposing.

Don't like the plan at all Jim Groovester, although it would help you find out who the sorcerers are (scum apprentices still get to vote right?), and encourage people to vote, if you were scum, finding out who the sorcerers were would be a really big help for you.

Wait a second, I don't believe you came up with this on your own. Surprisingly relevant criticism to a plan in a unique mafia variant? And it sounds so familiar to criticism I leveled in the last game.

Yeah, I don't buy this for a second.

Unvote Criptfeind. Who's feeding you answers, lemon10? Oh, and while we're at it, why don't you describe how I even could figure out who the town sorcerers were.

Don't like the plan at all Jim Groovester, although it would help you find out who the sorcerers are (scum apprentices still get to vote right?), and encourage people to vote, if you were scum, finding out who the sorcerers were would be a really big help for you.

Huh. I missed that part of your post.

No I will not go for your plan at this point without more explanation of why this will help.

No, I feel that it is a bad idea. I'm not sure if it helps town much, but it certainly helps you if you're scum.
And yes, I sent in my assist as soon as the day started.

Jim, your plan is terrible unless you get very clever with it- specifically, if you give only a very small set of people one color, so it's more obvious if they don't use it/others also use it. Even then it could be hard to tell what had happened and why.

In terms of getting people to send in their assists, I don't see what advantage it has over just pestering them by PM, which I wholeheartedly approve of, by the way.

On the plan:
I don't think it'll help.  The combined effect of the sorcerers would make it very difficult to determine anything about the scum.
Of course, if it's just to get people to actually support, then I'm all for that.

Jim:  I think you're wasting your time with your plan as originally stated, and you'd be better served by posting a "Send in your assists" reminder in giant bold orange text.  FYI, I have already sent my assist- I did it early since I can't imagine anything actually happening today that would make any one choice better than an arbitrary one.

I hear all of you.

But I don't want to give up that easy. So I'll post some details about what I was planning; maybe I can convince you.

Essentially, I would just divide everybody into three approximately equal groups and then have them all assist a different school. Every school gets supported to some extent, so all the sorcerers are in action. If there's any useful information to be gleaned from the supports the next day, I'll find it. If not, no harm done.

Basically, it's a slight improvement over just making sure everybody gets in their assists and assisting randomly, so I think it's worth doing. I hear lots of criticisms that it won't help, but that really doesn't bug me all that much. If it will harm, on the other hand, then I'll just drop it and just badger everybody about getting in their assists.

So far the only criticisms where it will harm have been the scenario I'm scum. There's nothing I can really say about this, except to say that I'm not scum.

[lemon10]

-SNIP-
Lemon:  Why not send it now?  You can change it before day end.  Also, what do you expect to hear that could make you change your mind?

I already sent it, but i hadn't sent it before when jim asked me if i had. I expect to hear nothing that could change my mind, short of one of the sorcers revealing themselves and their powers, since i don't know what any of the sorcerers do yet, until i know (or have any suspicions about what a color does) then its pretty much random.

Why?  You can't just vote someone without giving a reason.
Well, you can, but you can't expect to convince anyone that way.

My reason is that to me, his plan to tell people who to assist by pm's seem a bit scummy, BUT thats about it, i'm not really THAT suspicious of him, just him more then everyone else, because no one really seems that scummy to me yet (besides him a little bit).

And I asked you that question because I'm proving a point. You had to be prompted to send in your assist. This is the point of what I'm proposing.

Sigh, i would have send it in irregardless, you sending me a pm of who to vote for wouldn't change me voting.

Wait a second, I don't believe you came up with this on your own. Surprisingly relevant criticism to a plan in a unique mafia variant? And it sounds so familiar to criticism I leveled in the last game.
Yeah, I don't buy this for a second.
Unvote Criptfeind. Who's feeding you answers, lemon10? Oh, and while we're at it, why don't you describe how I even could figure out who the town sorcerers were.

I'm not quite stupid enough not to be able to come with anything on my own or come up with anything relevant, yeah i don't know the nuances of how mafia is played (eg. i suck at scumhunting and thinking up hypotheticals), but it seems to me that i should be able to think up things on my own. And no one is feeding me answers.
And i hadn't quite thought through how you could find it out, although i think you could, but ill do that now.
You could tell 1 person to vote for a sorcerer, and everyone else to vote for the other two, if the sorc doesn't get the vote and he said he sent one, its pretty obvious he's a sorcerer, if the sorc does get the vote, then you know that he isn't a sorc
If you tell 3 people to support each sorcerer, and sorc 1 got 2 votes, sorc 2 got 2 votes and sorc 3 got 3 votes, you would know that (unless people voted for people other then they said they would) that 2 of the people in group 1 are sorcs and 1 in group 2, while none in group 3. If your mafia knowing who to kill would be a great help (i assume)
So while it might not let you know for sure, it would help you figure it out greatly. And it is a bit rude to say that you don't think i am unable to think up things myself.

And yeah, the only harm is IF you are scum, but i don't think it would be that much help if you aren't.

[Toaster]

My beef with it is the large number of people who won't follow your instructions- with three sorcs and a scum apprentice, that's four right there.  That's a 40% failure rate on your PMed suggestion, rendering any hope of gathering useful information worthless.

Lemon:  Fair enough on your answer to me.

I do suggest you worry less with hypotheticals and more with who is acting scummy.

[Nirur Torir]

Everybody thinks it's about figuring out fakeclaims.

No, it's about getting people to send in their assists. That's the main point.

What's there to argue about, really? Just PM people reminders. If they happen to take your advice on who to assist, then there's some variety in assists.

[KaminaSquirtle]

My beef with it is the large number of people who won't follow your instructions- with three sorcs and a scum apprentice, that's four right there.  That's a 40% failure rate on your PMed suggestion, rendering any hope of gathering useful information worthless.

My thoughts exactly.  Too great a failure rate.

Why?  You can't just vote someone without giving a reason.
Well, you can, but you can't expect to convince anyone that way.

My reason is that to me, his plan to tell people who to assist by pm's seem a bit scummy, BUT thats about it, i'm not really THAT suspicious of him, just him more then everyone else, because no one really seems that scummy to me yet (besides him a little bit).

I thought that plan was made up during/after the last game, right?  So that can't have any bearing on whether Jim is scum or not.
But really I don't think it's a good idea to vote someone unless you're sure they're scum, or you intend to pressure them.k
Just me, though.

[Jim Groovester]

My beef with it is the large number of people who won't follow your instructions- with three sorcs and a scum apprentice, that's four right there.  That's a 40% failure rate on your PMed suggestion, rendering any hope of gathering useful information worthless.

My thoughts exactly.  Too great a failure rate.

That doesn't bother me that much.

Would both of you be willing to go along with it even if you don't believe it's going to work? At the very least, it won't hurt anything, right?

Everybody thinks it's about figuring out fakeclaims.

No, it's about getting people to send in their assists. That's the main point.

What's there to argue about, really? Just PM people reminders. If they happen to take your advice on who to assist, then there's some variety in assists.

So, are you telling me to just go and do it? Would you take whatever suggestion I gave you? If there's any chance of getting any useful information (dim hope, I know), then it's going to require everybody's willing participation.

And there's already going to be a variety of assists. It's going to be a (mostly) even division of support. 3-3-4. That's not what it's going to end up like tomorrow, of course, but that's as evenly as it can be divided right now.

Wait a second, I don't believe you came up with this on your own. Surprisingly relevant criticism to a plan in a unique mafia variant? And it sounds so familiar to criticism I leveled in the last game.
Yeah, I don't buy this for a second.
Unvote Criptfeind. Who's feeding you answers, lemon10? Oh, and while we're at it, why don't you describe how I even could figure out who the town sorcerers were.

I'm not quite stupid enough not to be able to come with anything on my own or come up with anything relevant, yeah i don't know the nuances of how mafia is played (eg. i suck at scumhunting and thinking up hypotheticals), but it seems to me that i should be able to think up things on my own. And no one is feeding me answers.
And i hadn't quite thought through how you could find it out, although i think you could, but ill do that now.
You could tell 1 person to vote for a sorcerer, and everyone else to vote for the other two, if the sorc doesn't get the vote and he said he sent one, its pretty obvious he's a sorcerer, if the sorc does get the vote, then you know that he isn't a sorc
If you tell 3 people to support each sorcerer, and sorc 1 got 2 votes, sorc 2 got 2 votes and sorc 3 got 3 votes, you would know that (unless people voted for people other then they said they would) that 2 of the people in group 1 are sorcs and 1 in group 2, while none in group 3. If your mafia knowing who to kill would be a great help (i assume)
So while it might not let you know for sure, it would help you figure it out greatly. And it is a bit rude to say that you don't think i am unable to think up things myself.

And yeah, the only harm is IF you are scum, but i don't think it would be that much help if you aren't.

Hm.

Apologies for assuming you were unable to come up with that on you're own.

But what do you think I'm trying to do here? Do you think I'm trying to get everybody to go through with this plan just so I can get a grainy picture of what group the town sorcerers belong to? That's a lot of work I'm going through just to get that. I'd be better off not attracting attention like this and instead trying to sniff 'em out by looking at how people post. Or do you think that I'm trying to do this because I believe there might be a chance to get some useful information about who the scum are? The chance is certainly a remote one, but it's better than just assisting randomly and without a plan.

That's really the important question here. What do you think my motives are?

My reason is that to me, his plan to tell people who to assist by pm's seem a bit scummy, BUT thats about it, i'm not really THAT suspicious of him, just him more then everyone else, because no one really seems that scummy to me yet (besides him a little bit).

I don't like this very much.

If my plan is suspicious, but you only suspect me a little bit, why are you voting me? You could be asking me questions along with it, but you seem content to just sit there with your vote on me, waiting for someone to do something more suspicious instead of going out and looking for them, or using your vote for pressure while you ask me questions.

That is what you're supposed to do, anyway. So, are you going to do it? If you've got questions, I'll answer them.

[Nirur Torir]

Unvote.

Everybody thinks it's about figuring out fakeclaims.

No, it's about getting people to send in their assists. That's the main point.

What's there to argue about, really? Just PM people reminders. If they happen to take your advice on who to assist, then there's some variety in assists.

So, are you telling me to just go and do it? Would you take whatever suggestion I gave you? If there's any chance of getting any useful information (dim hope, I know), then it's going to require everybody's willing participation.

I would not.

But what do you think I'm trying to do here? Do you think I'm trying to get everybody to go through with this plan just so I can get a grainy picture of what group the town sorcerers belong to? That's a lot of work I'm going through just to get that. I'd be better off not attracting attention like this and instead trying to sniff 'em out by looking at how people post. Or do you think that I'm trying to do this because I believe there might be a chance to get some useful information about who the scum are? The chance is certainly a remote one, but it's better than just assisting randomly and without a plan.

That's really the important question here. What do you think my motives are?

Jim: Why the WIFOM?

[Jim Groovester]

Because if I were scum, it would be kind of silly for me to be really trying to convince people to go along with this; too much time, too much effort. I'm really determined, though, aren't I?

This game should be renamed Jim Groovester Gets Shit For Trying To Organize The Town II.

[Nirur Torir]

"Look, I'm town, because these actions are not the actions of scum. Why would I do this if I was scum?"

You answered my question with more WIFOM.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Would both of you be willing to go along with it even if you don't believe it's going to work? At the very least, it won't hurt anything, right?

I guess not.  I don't like the idea of scum having a better idea of who the town sorcs' are.  To me, it seems like the plan would give more info on the sorcs than on the scum apprentice.  Yeah, to me it seems like this would benefit scum more than town.  Town would know the deviating votes, but scum would know that and who they voted, so assuming all of town went along with it it would tell scum who the town sorcs are.  Even if you're town, this seems to me like it help scum more.

Because if I were scum, it would be kind of silly for me to be really trying to convince people to go along with this; too much time, too much effort. I'm really determined, though, aren't I?

This game should be renamed Jim Groovester Gets Shit For Trying To Organize The Town II.

Kinda silly for a townie to go to all this effort for a vague view of who scum are, with a good chance of getting town sorcs instead.
WIFOM works both ways.