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[Jim Groovester]

Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, lemon10, Mr.Person

I want to know why there is four random votes on one guy. Even if that guy is Jet.

Because Kamina Squirtle random voted him first, then I random voted him. Then who knows what the hell Mr. Person and lemon10 were doing.

Unvote.

I want to know why you're using ineffective questioning methods. Nobody feels pressured by a statement aimed at four people simultaneously, and relatively few answer such questions.

Why is it a problem if Criptfeind does things ineffectively?

And while we're at it, what are some effective questioning methods?

Mr.person which of the mages would you LIKE to suport and why?

Why do you care? If you're not scum then it's a completely random choice between three schools of magic, so it's ultimately pointless to ask which one is better of three equally viable options.

[Nirur Torir]

Why is it a problem if Criptfeind does things ineffectively?

Of course it's a problem, and he's more experienced then I am.
If a townie is scum hunting ineffectively, then something needs to be corrected.
I can immediately see two reasons for scum to hunt ineffectively: First, anybody joining in on the questioning would be considered to be piggybacking, making it harder to further question using more effective methods, and two, weak questions for obviously suspicious behavior is an easy way to passive lurk. I consider the first one to be unlikely in this case.

I ask you, Jim, why wouldn't a townie see ineffective scum-hunting as a problem?

And while we're at it, what are some effective questioning methods?s

Questioning people individually is usually more likely to get a response then questioning a group with the same question, and people not answering a question specifically asked to them is much more telling.

[Jetsquirrel]

Why do you care? If you're not scum then it's a completely random choice between three schools of magic, so it's ultimately pointless to ask which one is better of three equally viable options.

i'm just curious some might find the white mage powers better than the reds but this is just a example. I could say who( one of the mages) i would vote for and when and why right now, but it isn't neccesary for me as i directed the question to him.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Why do you care? If you're not scum then it's a completely random choice between three schools of magic, so it's ultimately pointless to ask which one is better of three equally viable options.

i'm just curious some might find the white mage powers better than the reds but this is just a example. I could say who( one of the mages) i would vote for and when and why right now, but it isn't neccesary for me as i directed the question to him.

I'm fairly sure the powers aren't the same this time around, so you can't tell which may be better or worse.
And you still haven't answered my question.

[Jim Groovester]

Why is it a problem if Criptfeind does things ineffectively?

Of course it's a problem, and he's more experienced then I am.
If a townie is scum hunting ineffectively, then something needs to be corrected.
I can immediately see two reasons for scum to hunt ineffectively: First, anybody joining in on the questioning would be considered to be piggybacking, making it harder to further question using more effective methods, and two, weak questions for obviously suspicious behavior is an easy way to passive lurk. I consider the first one to be unlikely in this case.

I ask you, Jim, why wouldn't a townie see ineffective scum-hunting as a problem?

Well, of course he's going to have a problem with somebody throwing softball questions or letting people off the hook too easy, but that's not what you're giving Criptfeind crap for.

And that thing about doing bad scumhunting is so transparent that it's hardly ever an issue. Scum want to do good scumhunting, just like everybody else, because it makes them look like town. No point going about it in an awful way, because that would just attract attention.

And while we're at it, what are some effective questioning methods?s

Questioning people individually is usually more likely to get a response then questioning a group with the same question, and people not answering a question specifically asked to them is much more telling.

Okay, that's fine. But what are you supposed to do when four people do the same thing? Are you just supposed to focus on one? If Criptfeind did that people would wonder why he was singling out only one person.

You're making a big deal about this, but it's pretty misguided. If people don't answer Criptfeind, he can just ask again. There's nothing wrong with asking four people a question so long as he gets answers from all of them.

Why do you care? If you're not scum then it's a completely random choice between three schools of magic, so it's ultimately pointless to ask which one is better of three equally viable options.

i'm just curious some might find the white mage powers better than the reds but this is just a example. I could say who( one of the mages) i would vote for and when and why right now, but it isn't neccesary for me as i directed the question to him.

My goodness.

Okay, cool. We know a lot about you now, but how is that question going to help you find scum?

[Toaster]

Toaster: See above. This whole "posting D1 without already-formed suspicions" thing is new to me. I'll also point out that I'm almost positive that you're misusing the term WIFOM. Can you explain how you think that's what I'm doing?

I'm not 100% sure on that, but I don't like that attack line of yours.  It stinks of you trying to cast Jim in a bad light by undermining his argument in a poisoning the well strategy.  I can't give you much more than a gut reasoning on that one, however.

Let me ask you this:  You say you have no suspicions yet.  Do you feel questioning lots of people or focusing on a select few is the best way to figure out who is the scum?

[Jetsquirrel]

Okay, cool. We know a lot about you now, but how is that question going to help you find scum?

because it might affect his assist , instead he just would vote for his/her scum school. But by asking that i actually may disrupt his choice of assisting,
because afterall if you say who you vote and suddenly 2-3 votes pop up on a mage the next day something is clearly fishy right? But thats only is he is scum if he isn't however he will just assist according to his thoughts and evidence because he has nothing to fear.

[Jetsquirrel]

and for Kamina which i forgot to post see the 3rd or 4rth quote of my small piece of text with question quotes

[KaminaSquirtle]

and for Kamina which i forgot to post see the 3rd or 4rth quote of my small piece of text with question quotes

I asked you a new one.

Not good enough.  Easy enough to say, doesn't mean you're going to do it.  Give me an example of a strategy you plan to employ in scumhunting.

[Jim Groovester]

Okay, cool. We know a lot about you now, but how is that question going to help you find scum?

because it might affect his assist , instead he just would vote for his/her scum school. But by asking that i actually may disrupt his choice of assisting,
because afterall if you say who you vote and suddenly 2-3 votes pop up on a mage the next day something is clearly fishy right? But thats only is he is scum if he isn't however he will just assist according to his thoughts and evidence because he has nothing to fear.

Okay, cool.

But you're assuming that Mr. Person is going to answer your honestly. If he's scum, what's to stop him from just outright lying to you about it?

And since there are only two scum this game (A master sorcerer and an apprentice), a slight majority in the assists of one school would not be very significant at all.

[lemon10]

Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, lemon10, Mr.Person

I want to know why there is four random votes on one guy. Even if that guy is Jet.

Because i didn't really read mr. person's vote before i posted, and i didn't really care if other people had voted for him, because by the end of the day (unless he didn't log on at all, or said something really stupid to prove himself scum), most of those votes will change to someone else.

Lemon:  You put the fourth vote on Jetsquirrel for, as you said, not having posted yet.  Do you really think that was a valid reason for a vote less than five hours after the game had started?  What do you think of the first three votes on him?

Valid reason for a vote, sure, valid reason for suspicion no, most of the votes so far appear to be more or less random (with the exception of the votes on jet). I think that the first three votes on him were because he was afk (although i know not being on the computer for 5 hours means nothing at all).

(And a question, is defending people in general frowned upon/ a stupid thing to do because it would make you sound scummy if they are scum?)

Not really. Self-preservation is a scum trait. Townies shouldn't care about looking scummy if they themselves can uncover a scum. Even if they die, they still win if the scum are all lynched. Since there are few scum, the scum must minimize their own chances of death as much as possible.
I want to see your thought processes here. If self-preservation is not the reason why it's bad practice to defend people, then what's wrong with defending people?

If you defend people then people will think it's you, if its part of some grand plan to uncover the scum then its ok, but it it doesn't help uncover them then its a waste.
Because then people will think its you, which is irregarless bad, if you are a townie, then you getting lynched will mean 1 less day against the scum, 1 day kill against a townie AND allow the scum to lynch someone else at night (getting 2 kills in a day/night cycle instead of 1).
And if people think its you then it will to some extent draw suspicion away from the scum while you are alive.

[Nirur Torir]

Unvote Criptfeind.

If you defend people then people will think it's you, if its part of some grand plan to uncover the scum then its ok, but it it doesn't help uncover them then its a waste.
Because then people will think its you, which is irregarless bad, if you are a townie, then you getting lynched will mean 1 less day against the scum, 1 day kill against a townie AND allow the scum to lynch someone else at night (getting 2 kills in a day/night cycle instead of 1).
And if people think its you then it will to some extent draw suspicion away from the scum while you are alive.

See, Lemon10, you're still thinking in terms of self-survival, a scum trait. Although townies shouldn't throw their lives away, self-survival focus is bad for town. Townies will continue to die until they manage to figure out who the scum is.

To answer the question: If you defend people, they may well not answer the question. Talking is good for town. The more the scum talk, the more likely they are to chip their mask. Attacking somebody for going after an easy kill (scummy), or for trying to lynch with no apparent reason is good. Attacking people because of the way they attack is fine. Outright defending people is less fine.

Another question: If you could choose any role, which would it be, and why?

[Toaster]

Lemon:  You put the fourth vote on Jetsquirrel for, as you said, not having posted yet.  Do you really think that was a valid reason for a vote less than five hours after the game had started?  What do you think of the first three votes on him?

Valid reason for a vote, sure, valid reason for suspicion no, most of the votes so far appear to be more or less random (with the exception of the votes on jet). I think that the first three votes on him were because he was afk (although i know not being on the computer for 5 hours means nothing at all).

Now that he's answered, do you think he is scummy?

[Mr.Person]

Jetsquirrel, what do you think will be the easy way to catch our scum?

Set up a trap involving a NK or lure them out.

No plans of, I dunno, lynching them?

Mr.person which of the mages would you LIKE to suport and why?

I have no idea. Hopefully a townie sorcerer. I have to say, this sounds a lot like rolefishing to me.

Okay, cool. We know a lot about you now, but how is that question going to help you find scum?

because it might affect his assist , instead he just would vote for his/her scum school. But by asking that i actually may disrupt his choice of assisting,
because afterall if you say who you vote and suddenly 2-3 votes pop up on a mage the next day something is clearly fishy right? But thats only is he is scum if he isn't however he will just assist according to his thoughts and evidence because he has nothing to fear.

If I wasn't random voting you right now, I would totally vote you for this blatant rolefishing. Why do you care so much what color I assist?

Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, lemon10, Mr.Person

I want to know why there is four random votes on one guy. Even if that guy is Jet.

I chose Jetsquirrel and voted before really looking at the posts and who was voting who.

Yes, that would be an easy out for me if I were scum. But that's not something specific to me alone; it would be an easy out for anybody.

When lemon10 slips up, whether or not he's being a newbie or scum is going to be a difficult judgment to make, but I'm not going to ignore it when he does. I'm going to ask him questions, and then I'll make that judgment based on how he responds.

Just like normal scumhunting! Go figure.

I'll be more forgiving though, because he's a newbie and he's going to make lots of mistakes. But there are lots of unique scum tells that only newbies drop that should make it a straightforward matter to figure out whether or not he's scum in addition to being a newbie. Like not being able to call someone scum, sounding like he's reading from a script, etc.

Most importantly, if I think he's trying to look for scum I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Weren't you a minute ago implying he and I were cozy scumbuddies, and now you're implying that I'm scum trying to go after him because he'd be an easy target? I don't know, dude. Seems like you're setting yourself up to suspect me later on, regardless of whether or not I'm hard or easy on the guy.

So what will you do if Lemon doesn't screw up at all?

Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, lemon10, Mr.Person

I want to know why there is four random votes on one guy. Even if that guy is Jet.

Because Kamina Squirtle random voted him first, then I random voted him. Then who knows what the hell Mr. Person and lemon10 were doing.

If you're going to attack me and lemon, please be upfront about it rather than passive and deflect...ty.

[Jim Groovester]

So what will you do if Lemon doesn't screw up at all?

Nothing, since there's nothing to worry about.

This is an odd question. It would be like if I were to ask you what you were going to do about Toaster if he plays a good town game.

If you're going to attack me and lemon, please be upfront about it rather than passive and deflect...ty.

If I were trying to attack you I would be upfront about it.

But I wasn't. I was explaining myself.

Nirur Torir: I don't follow your reasoning for your vote on lemon10. At all. Mostly because I don't think it makes any sense. Could you explain it for me?

IronyOwl, what are your thoughts about the game so far? You haven't said anything since the first few hours of the game. It's been quiet so far; let's get some conversation going.