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[itisnotlogical]

It's the "tutorial" area, it takes like a minute if you've already done it once.

It's kinda neat actually.  The actual tutorials are entirely optional.  You just have to choose some corridors to determine your character's 3-4 years of military training, which determine your starting stats.

Also, outside the recruitment building, there's a restaurant with exactly two people in it and no furniture. There's not even a kitchen, just an ambiguous countertop thing that traps one of the characters (not that they could leave anyway, since the door is locked). The whole thing was kinda silly to see for the first time.

[heydude6]

Does this game have a way to thrust? For instance, if I want to just take a quick step forward and shiv 'em instead of winding up and taking a huge swing? It would make a couple of spots much easier. I've gone down a few times to bouncing my sword off the walls.

Dark Souls.

The longsword (not the broadsword) has a thrust attack mapped to the heavy attack button (press it twice rapidly for an awesome combo). If you killed enough hollows in undead burg you should already have one in your inventory. Even though it does a whopping 2 less damage than the broadsword I consider it to be the better weapon. Weapon selection in Dark Souls is as much about the move-set as it is the raw damage numbers.

[itisnotlogical]

So I discovered something about System Shock 2: the game actively prevents savescumming.

Any time you die or get spotted by a security camera, the game overwrites the quick-save slot. On one hand I'm annoyed that the game overwrites a save without telling the player, but at the same time I'm kinda glad that I have to think "Hmm, this is dangerous, better save" as opposed to just mashing the quicksave key every ten seconds.

Which makes me think, however: is savescumming a gameplay skill?

[ThtblovesDF]

It is now.

Guess they... shocked... your... system.

[hector13]

Well I don't see the difference between quick-saving and just saving, beyond the extra few seconds it takes to open the menu and click "sayv muh gem plz"

The game is about a cheeky AI though (if I'm not horribly mistaken) so it's a nice touch.

[itisnotlogical]

Well I don't see the difference between quick-saving and just saving, beyond the extra few seconds it takes to open the menu and click "sayv muh gem plz"

The game is about a cheeky AI though (if I'm not horribly mistaken) so it's a nice touch.

Well, quicksaving can just be a reflexive action, whereas regular saving makes you stop what you're doing.

[AzyWng]

Which makes me think, however: is savescumming a gameplay skill?

I think a skill should, by definition, have more depth and difficulty than just "hit this button before you do anything dangerous".

Then again, I play Warframe, and "Hit this button before/while you're doing something dangerous" can actually be an effective tactic, at least with the ultimates of each frame..

[itisnotlogical]

Fucking monkeys are impossible to hit with the wrench, so I have to use my precious ammo on them. And of course the few gun-wielding hybrids are using shotguns, not pistols, and their shotguns magically break as soon as they drop them so I can't use them.

Even the melee mutants are pretty difficult with their little back-step dodge tactic. They're probably the only melee enemies as smart as a real player that I've seen in an FPS.

System Shock 2.

[GiglameshDespair]

The monkeys are definitely hittable in melee. If you're having difficulty, you could try crouching so you're on their level before you swing at them.
The shotgun mutants are also kind of vulnerable to melee - if you charge them, quite often they try backing up, as I recall, whereupon you just hit them again.

Hacking is pretty useful, though. Regardless of what kind of build I play, they always have hacking.

[Damiac]

I don't remember that game overwriting your quick saves when you die, because that was the only way I could play it (It was just too tense for me otherwise).  System shock 2 was a really fun game.  I never beat it, I just kept making different characters...  That happens to me a lot in those types of games

[AzyWng]

Fucking monkeys are impossible to hit with the wrench, so I have to use my precious ammo on them. And of course the few gun-wielding hybrids are using shotguns, not pistols, and their shotguns magically break as soon as they drop them so I can't use them.

Even the melee mutants are pretty difficult with their little back-step dodge tactic. They're probably the only melee enemies as smart as a real player that I've seen in an FPS.

System Shock 2.

So all the other players I've been seeing in FPS games are fake?

[EnigmaticHat]

I don't remember that game overwriting your quick saves when you die, because that was the only way I could play it (It was just too tense for me otherwise).  System shock 2 was a really fun game.  I never beat it, I just kept making different characters...  That happens to me a lot in those types of games

When I was younger I saw the early sections of Neverwinter Nights 2 dozens of times and never beat it.  Kept making new characters; I pretty much had the most fun at the character creation screen

[itisnotlogical]

I was like that with KOTOR 2. I owned it for over a decade before I beat it, sometimes getting ridiculously close before losing interest.

[Tawa]

I've been like that with Daggerfall. I'll go in thinking "alright, I'll beat the game with this new guy" and get sidetracked grinding for levels and loot or dungeon-delving. I think the furthest I've gotten is the quest where you go to the crazy old lady's castle out in the mountains.

[itisnotlogical]

I don't think I could beat Daggerfall if I had an entire year of nothing else to do but play Daggerfall. A typical dungeon can eat up multiple long play sessions, and that's assuming I just get bored and turn around before I find the quest objective.

I was actually kinda surprised that I ever beat Morrowind, it felt like such a massive globetrotting adventure. And you can get lost in that game because there's some areas that just don't have fast travel.