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[Duke 2.0]

 That seems horribly anti-christian for a thread about not attacking eachother.

[Realmfighter]

Everyone has to believe something, if that something is a all seeing deity with a short temper and a long list of things not to do that coincide with (most) modern morals, good on them.

If there hearing things, and do something illegal because of it they were crazy in the first place.

[Neonivek]

Interestingly and in many ways horribly

There is, UNFORTUNATELY, a strong link between Religion and Morality. Unfortunate because "Why the heck do I need a religious affiliation to do the right thing or even have moral oppinions?"

So I probably wouldn't put "Modern Morals" close to eachother... more like "Modern Ethics"

Because Ethics is such the nice word to use in an western world attempting to distance itself from religion (and YES people do equivocate Morality and Religion)

[Realmfighter]

But really, the bible is vague once you get to the specifics (And specifics are the only things that really change) so they mirror your own beliefs, no matter what they are.

Anyone can quote from the scripture something agreeing with them.

[Argembarger]

The opinions of religious institutions pretty much reflect the opinions of the people that set them up, which is why over history you get shifting denominations with subtly different ideas about what's acceptable.

Yeah, it tends to lag behind the actual contemporary consensus, but it'll always try to match up to some extent.

After all, they want as many followers as possible, and if they're preaching things that don't apply to or offend the current generation, they aren't going to get followers and will die off. So they adapt to survive.

I'm not really all that into institutionalized religion as a whole.

But really, the bible is vague once you get to the specifics (And specifics are the only things that really change) so they mirror your own beliefs, no matter what they are.

Anyone can quote from the scripture something agreeing with them.

Not to mention the bible has gone through the hands of so many translators, scholars, leaders and scribes, all of whom have their own ideas and opinions, I don't think the conservation of original intent has been kept very well.

--stuff--

Is that copypasta? I swear I've seen something that read almost exactly like that before.

[Realmfighter]

But you don't seem to understand.

"Religion" isn't some sort of incomprehensible entity, simultaneously pandering to and flipping off the people.

It is the people.

[Eugenitor]

Is that copypasta? I swear I've seen something that read almost exactly like that before.

It's not copypasta*. I'm not surprised it's not entirely unique, though.

People matching up their beliefs to an all-powerful, apparently sadistic entity, or altering their perceptions of the all-powerful entity to suit their already-held beliefs... I'm not sure which is worse.

*It is now, actually. Thanks for the idea

[Realmfighter]

I would have to go with the second, as I generally hold that thing that happen are worse then things that don't

For example, the Holocaust was worse then everything the Zerg has done.

[Argembarger]

Is that copypasta? I swear I've seen something that read almost exactly like that before.

It's not copypasta*. I'm not surprised it's not entirely unique, though.

People matching up their beliefs to an all-powerful, apparently sadistic entity, or altering their perceptions of the all-powerful entity to suit their already-held beliefs... I'm not sure which is worse.

*It is now, actually. Thanks for the idea

That's why institutional religion bugs me, and why I take large swaths of the bible as metaphor.

I'm probably more of a deist than anything, which I guess invalidates some of the things I've said already with regards to religious institutions.

Also I friggin swear it's copypasta, it's really uncanny. Let me see if I can find the original.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I would have to go with the second, as I generally hold that thing that happen are worse then things that don't

For example, the Holocaust was worse then everything the Zerg has done.

Well, Hitler's personal justification for the Holocaust was apparently a single verse in Matthew, where the people of Jerusalem get Pilate to agree to crucify Jesus by telling him to "let his (Jesus's) blood be upon us and all our children." I'm still not entirely clear what your point is, though.

[Realmfighter]

That the bible has done more good then harm, if only because it gave people pleasure and any place where it has been used maliciously would have been filled with something else.

[Argembarger]

I can't find it which is bugging me

But I remember it was a second-person narrative describing you, in elementary school, and a classmate who hands you a bible and you read through it and discover all of these horrifying things and then you take it back and try to console yourself that it can't be rationally true

I believe the punchline of the copypasta is "And then your classmate starts saying that the entity/God has been telling them to do things..."

it followed the general narrative flow you used and hit up many of the points that you did.

So yeah, uncanny.


Also: Zerg inspired by the bible to "go forth and multiply". I guess that makes the Terran and Protoss, like, gentiles and babylonians or something. Dem babylonians.

Double edit: really trying hard not to write up something comparing events in the bible with events in starcraft 1 and 2...

[Neonivek]

I really don't mind this conversation all that much.

Sure I don't agree with Realmfighter in most of his points but at least he is grounded and understands Religion in an athiest world as a entity made up of people rather then the most common response of Religion as an entity in it of itself that seeks the ruination of the world. (Honestly, just start a conversation as "Religion is the cause of all evil" and see how many people will jump in and will suddenly give Religion a consciousness in which to enact EVIL ignoring the cultural, political, and often even biological reasonings for most of these "religious" events. Best yet make the conversation about the Crusades and BEHOLD!!! Disney Crusades! Watch as the Crusades are suddenly transformed from a major socioeconomic war about two+ entirely different cultures with their own sets of beliefs and practices that span thousands of years turns into a war where the Church commits genocide on the Muslims because they have the one true god)

Honestly I don't quite understand the concept of "Religion is evil" in the mindset that Religion is fake. In a world where religion is fake, which may or may not be our world, it would be better to think about Religions as another political institution then as a living entity.

But then again people arn't fair and people blame things in the easiest way.

Just see how many people believe Lawyers are evil and Lawyers "Prove" innocent people guilty and guilty people innocent. While there are corrupt Lawyers it sort of represents an outright misunderstanding of what a Lawyer even is. Though this mindset isn't new, even as far back as ATHENS!!! and other ancient societies there have been an unusual backlash against trying to "Convince" others (honestly, Athens isn't the Utopia some historians make it seem... I mean yes it is probably better then a lot of other places around that time, but it is hardly an ivory castle even by medieval standards).

An as for the Protoss, the reason they can be defeated by the Terran despite being so advanced is because the Protoss have to conserve their resources because even their own lives are powered by a RARE resource that they ultimately don't have an infinite supply of (Plus the Protoss have slow population increases, overly humanitarian practices, and a warrior code and tactics that weaken them strategically making them a very advanced very inept society). The Terrans have no reservation and symbolically throw money at the Protoss. It is like having fully loaded Revolver against five archers, SURE your gun is supperior to their arrows, but it doesn't close the gap that much.

[Leafsnail]

Anyone can quote from the scripture something agreeing with them.

Which is part of what can make it dangerous.

[fqllve]

Anyone can quote from the scripture something agreeing with them.

Which is part of what can make it dangerous.

Well, it's like the Bible Code. Anything that can be done with the Bible can probably be done with Moby Dick too. Work of sufficient length, so on so on.