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Author Topic: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber  (Read 6775 times)

LilGunmanX

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Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« on: November 10, 2010, 10:55:57 am »

I am absolutely in love with my current fortress. Despite being embarked on the border between life and death, the border between savage forests to the north and the terrifying mountain to the south, my dwarves have remained stalwart, conquering their environment completely within the seven years they have arrived. A constant supply of strange and exotic creatures fill our cages, flowing freely from the caverns below, and the elk-bird hatcheries produce an enormous abundance of heavy elk-bird meat and valuable bones. No less than eight rutherers have joined the fortress as guards, tethered by chains of gold in the hallway which leads directly into the heart of our fortress, and no less than forty war dogs are caged behind them; a last-ditch defense in a case of emergencies. The mayor's office alone is personally guarded by the two largest male draltha in our stock of purebreds. Of course, we also possess many other creatures, for every occasion... but they are in lesser numbers, and so they are not oft put to practical use, merely being left to lurk the dark recesses of our famously large dining hall...


However, that changed when we received word of the forgotten beast Ngok lurking our first (of three) cavern chambers...

An enormous humanoid composed of solid salt. It has two long, curly tails and undulates rhythmically. Beware its poisonous gas!

And that is when inspiration struck me.

Though our defenses are in no way lacking, nor are they in any way perfect. Our elite rutherer guard is almost one-hundred percent effective at eliminating thieves, but they would not have that same luck against sieges, a task better left to our elite brigand corps. We do have a drawbridge out front, which we can close to act as a wall if we are besieged by more forces than we can handle, but more will be necessary once the troll shock-troops and heavy cavalry begin to arrive. A large pit, ten stories deep, has been installed in front of our main gate, complete with a retractable drawbridge to cover it, forming an effective pit-trap for the unsuspecting goblin forces.

But this is still not enough. Because the pit is three-by-ten Uristtiles wide, at least 300 iron spikes would be necessary to ensure that everything that falls into the pit will die, one-hundred percent of the time. A giantess had been captured, and we had considered releasing her into the pit that she may enjoy herself on the living remains of those fallen in, but that idea was discarded immediately once we learned of the beast's approaching.

Immediately, once I learned of its poisonous gas breath, my brain set to work, and an elaborate trap was designed to capture the old creature alive...
==========
^  ^  ^  ^  ^ 
^ ^ GCS ^  ^   [Downward stairs leading into the first cavern]
^ ^   ^  ^  ^
==========

The plan would be that the beast would confront my captured she-spider, engaging it on top of the traps where it would become ensnared by the spider's webs and then trip said traps, causing the cage to close up around it, effectively capturing it.

Of course, the trap succeeded...all according to plan.

One might be expecting me to release the ancient creature into the pit, where it would feast endlessly upon goblin bones. But doing this would leave me no way to collect the spoils of war. I need the help of the great minds of the Bay12 forums to decide what to do with this majestic beast. All ideas are welcome! Creativity is encouraged.

Personally, my idea was this: Build a fortified square in the center of the pit, where the beast will be caged, and channels will be dug around the square. The holy beast of salt will gas the goblins with his boiling fogotten beast extract through the fortifications, down into the channel, where the deceased goblins will be washed away by water into a "separation room", where their equipment will be stripped off them and handed over to the military of Scaleddaggers. The bloody water drains into the first cavern, which is in close vicinity to the bottom of the pit.

Of course, all of presents a question: can forgotten beasts blow breath attacks up multiple z-layers? I would imagine they can, since projectile weapons can, but similarly I don't believe that cave spiders can shoot their silk up multiple z-layers, and I think the anatomy of a breath attack is more similar to the GCS's silk blasting skill than a true projectile weapon.

Thinking about all of this, I also began to think of more...diabolical uses that the beast could be put to... such as a very *true-to-definition* gas-chamber, in which prisoners would be exposed to the full extent of the beast's poisonous breath.

I had a similar idea a long time ago... called the "sickness chamber"... which I could use to punish unruly dwarves. The idea was to dig a few one-tile-wide holes in a large room, storing a caged cave floater in each one, and then put a grate over each hole and then a retractable bridge on top of that. Release the floaters with the same lever that you use for the bridges, kill them all somehow and suddenly the room erupts with toxic gasses....

...But cave floaters aren't deadly, just illness-inducing. Forgotten beasts, on the other hand, can be a lot more fun than mere cave floaters, and I have seen a many more forgotten beasts than I have cave floaters, which seem to elude me in great supply. Again, I would need to know if direct breath attacks could travel up multiple z-levels... or even if any type of gas produced by creatures can travel up multiple z-levels. Of course, I could modify the design of my chambers to keep all of the creatures on the same z-level in the event that gas doesn't travel up z-levels, but that wouldn't be as fun.

So, ideas, gentlemen and ladies? Do you have some delicious new use for me to put the beast to? Perhaps you have an addition to make to one of my existing designs? Or perhaps you feel as though something completely different should be done with it? Maybe you simply want to discuss how one would go about building a gas-chamber, with or without this particular forgotten beast involved in the design? I feel as though this will become an interesting and eloquent discussion, which shall serve to advance the science of killing gas-usage for all dwarfkind! Muahahaha *coughs violently*
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Quietust

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 11:17:48 am »

Some beasts only use their breath attacks during combat, while some others constantly give off clouds of extract as they walk around. Which type is this?
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

LilGunmanX

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 11:27:52 am »

Some beasts only use their breath attacks during combat, while some others constantly give off clouds of extract as they walk around. Which type is this?

This is the type that breathes his breath when he is entering combat.
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NightmareBros

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 11:32:39 am »

Quote
This is the type that breathes his breath when he is entering combat.
So, it's the difficult kind of noxious gas trap.


EXCELENT.
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druid91

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 11:55:44 am »

Build a fortification bunker. surround the bunker with raisable drawbridges. Block off the FB when you don't need it to unleash toxic death on everyone in the pit.
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The least you could have done was throw down some booze and seasoning. Abyssal Monsters that Creatures of the Light Know Not Of aren't savages, y'know. Sharing's caring.

Flaede

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 12:01:06 pm »

Build a fortification bunker. surround the bunker with raisable drawbridges. Block off the FB when you don't need it to unleash toxic death on everyone in the pit.

Except that breath attacks only work (last I heard) when the enemy is pathable, as well as just visible. So you would need to adapt something from the Fire Imp test as well, with the beastie running back and forth between triggered hatches... and if I remember rightly, buildingdestroyers destroy pressure plates. So that doesn't work at ALL.
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LilGunmanX

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 12:21:46 pm »

Note: I may actually attempt to capture another forgotten beast; this one's gas breath doesn't seem too powerful, as in a different iteration of the game my dwarves managed to bring it down fine and only get a few numb right arms from the conflict. At least, I'm not sure if they were poisoned heavily or not...

But either way, this gas chamber is being BUILT, regardless of what I do with this specific beast! Keep the ideas flowing :D

Also: Will an FB gas an enemy through a fortification?
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druid91

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 12:30:19 pm »

Build a fortification bunker. surround the bunker with raisable drawbridges. Block off the FB when you don't need it to unleash toxic death on everyone in the pit.

Except that breath attacks only work (last I heard) when the enemy is pathable, as well as just visible. So you would need to adapt something from the Fire Imp test as well, with the beastie running back and forth between triggered hatches... and if I remember rightly, buildingdestroyers destroy pressure plates. So that doesn't work at ALL.
Can the FB fly? if not rig up a machine that drops kittens into the bunker, or (If it has not tasted dwarven blood) see if you can tame it, then use captured goblin prisoners.
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The least you could have done was throw down some booze and seasoning. Abyssal Monsters that Creatures of the Light Know Not Of aren't savages, y'know. Sharing's caring.

Encased in burning magma

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 12:44:43 pm »

Pretty sure your creature needs to path to the ennemy.
You could get it stuck, drop kittens on it, and hopes it breathes.

Ranged goblins will make a pincushion out of it, but yeah...
edit: wait; do they need to path too? Hmmmmmmmmmm...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 12:47:25 pm by Encased in burning magma »
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Quietust

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 12:53:04 pm »

and if I remember rightly, buildingdestroyers destroy pressure plates.

I've never heard of building destroyers destroying pressure plates; however, there's the even bigger problem that forgotten beasts also have [TRAPAVOID] and thus won't trigger pressure plates.
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

LilGunmanX

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 02:12:34 pm »

Build a fortification bunker. surround the bunker with raisable drawbridges. Block off the FB when you don't need it to unleash toxic death on everyone in the pit.

Except that breath attacks only work (last I heard) when the enemy is pathable, as well as just visible. So you would need to adapt something from the Fire Imp test as well, with the beastie running back and forth between triggered hatches... and if I remember rightly, buildingdestroyers destroy pressure plates. So that doesn't work at ALL.
Can the FB fly? if not rig up a machine that drops kittens into the bunker, or (If it has not tasted dwarven blood) see if you can tame it, then use captured goblin prisoners.

No, it is a land-based FB. Moreover, I don't believe it is possible to tame forgotten beasts. I don't understand why kittens are being fed to my beast in this instance, but the idea is appreciated nonetheless :)
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Encased in burning magma

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 02:20:31 pm »

Build a fortification bunker. surround the bunker with raisable drawbridges. Block off the FB when you don't need it to unleash toxic death on everyone in the pit.

Except that breath attacks only work (last I heard) when the enemy is pathable, as well as just visible. So you would need to adapt something from the Fire Imp test as well, with the beastie running back and forth between triggered hatches... and if I remember rightly, buildingdestroyers destroy pressure plates. So that doesn't work at ALL.
Can the FB fly? if not rig up a machine that drops kittens into the bunker, or (If it has not tasted dwarven blood) see if you can tame it, then use captured goblin prisoners.

No, it is a land-based FB. Moreover, I don't believe it is possible to tame forgotten beasts. I don't understand why kittens are being fed to my beast in this instance, but the idea is appreciated nonetheless :)

RAWR! KITTEN!!

*breathes poison*
*poison seeps through fortifications*
*profit*
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druid91

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 02:33:31 pm »

Build a fortification bunker. surround the bunker with raisable drawbridges. Block off the FB when you don't need it to unleash toxic death on everyone in the pit.

Except that breath attacks only work (last I heard) when the enemy is pathable, as well as just visible. So you would need to adapt something from the Fire Imp test as well, with the beastie running back and forth between triggered hatches... and if I remember rightly, buildingdestroyers destroy pressure plates. So that doesn't work at ALL.
Can the FB fly? if not rig up a machine that drops kittens into the bunker, or (If it has not tasted dwarven blood) see if you can tame it, then use captured goblin prisoners.

No, it is a land-based FB. Moreover, I don't believe it is possible to tame forgotten beasts. I don't understand why kittens are being fed to my beast in this instance, but the idea is appreciated nonetheless :)

RAWR! KITTEN!!

*breathes poison*
*poison seeps through fortifications*
*profit*
Pretty much. The kittens are bait to get the FB to breath its poison. since breath weapons are huge blasts it should go through fortifications to hit the unfortunate goblins.
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The least you could have done was throw down some booze and seasoning. Abyssal Monsters that Creatures of the Light Know Not Of aren't savages, y'know. Sharing's caring.

Xenos

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 02:52:00 pm »

Build a fortification bunker. surround the bunker with raisable drawbridges. Block off the FB when you don't need it to unleash toxic death on everyone in the pit.

Except that breath attacks only work (last I heard) when the enemy is pathable, as well as just visible. So you would need to adapt something from the Fire Imp test as well, with the beastie running back and forth between triggered hatches... and if I remember rightly, buildingdestroyers destroy pressure plates. So that doesn't work at ALL.
Can the FB fly? if not rig up a machine that drops kittens into the bunker, or (If it has not tasted dwarven blood) see if you can tame it, then use captured goblin prisoners.

No, it is a land-based FB. Moreover, I don't believe it is possible to tame forgotten beasts. I don't understand why kittens are being fed to my beast in this instance, but the idea is appreciated nonetheless :)

RAWR! KITTEN!!

*breathes poison*
*poison seeps through fortifications*
*profit*
Pretty much. The kittens are bait to get the FB to breath its poison. since breath weapons are huge blasts it should go through fortifications to hit the unfortunate goblins.
An excellent way to dispose of unwanted kittens as well!  dig a pit above the forgotten beasts pen with a retracting drawbridge at the top and bottom of it. Open the top, assign animals, close the top, open the bottom, profit.  :D  It is nice because your dwarves will be unexposed to toxins(it has the benefit of being able to drop the goblins into the chamber as well.)  I would recommend always running dfcleanmap before and after you flush the room with water to make sure that you don't start a deadly pandemic among your dwarves.
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This is a useful feature..and this is DF.. so im gonna assume its bugged
That's what cages and minecart shotguns are for!  We don't need to control them.  We just need to aim them.
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thijser

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Re: Desiging the First Dwarven Gas-chamber
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 02:57:12 pm »

Oh this is easy....
You can block the fb's path by raising a bridge.
there are 2 ways:
1: the pit and a road connected to a pit. What you do is drop a cat down in order to lure it away after the goblins are death. Then raise the bridge and you can acces the pit
b=bridge(channel underneath)
w=wall
H=hatch (above)
h=channel
wwwwwwwwwwwwwww
w     bb                   Hw
w     wwwwwwwwwwww
wwww

or you can work with a long road and 2 bridges
     
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
w     bb                          w
w     hhhhhwwwwwwww   w
w     bb                          w
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
This way once you open the bridge on one side and the fb is on the other side it will use his Poisson. You will need to close the bridge at the right time and it might not always work (if the fb is on the wrong side). A more complex version would be by channel around it in order the prevent the fb from entering the pit but allowing it to fire. Once you want it to attack you simply close a single bridge on the other side and it will attack.
kind of like this:

hbhhhhhhbhh
h              h
b              b
hhhhhbhhhhh
This would work best for large rooms.

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