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Total Members Voted: 11

[IronyOwl]

My argument is a pump isn't needlessly complex, and is much safer than essentially expanding the river into our fortress, then blocking off parts of it. Also, unless we're going to build the farms one level under, we'll need a pump (or a lot of buckets) at some point in the design anyway.

Arguing in the open is better because it allows anyone else who's interested to join in or just weigh the options. Even if we come to an agreement, hearing our arguments is a lot more convincing than "We have decided this."

Come to think of it, what do prepared meals do? I would assume they're tastier if the cook is skilled, but how do they interact with variety? If eating X,Y, and Z cooked into a roast is as varied as eating X, Y, and Z for different meals, we might not really have a reason to not cook our food.

Also, bear in mind we've got 11 people eating three meals a day. 80 stew seems massively excessive, but we go through 33 meals a day, so it's really less than 3 days' worth. Not that we'll all eat it for every meal, but unless it sucks we should go through it pretty fast.

[Samthere]

Dwarves don't cook food to have it go off any time quickly. Barrels are the ultimate preservative! And the quality and variety is improved so much without losing quantity.

And yeah, I agree that we don't need a pump yet. 2 or 3 floodgates attached to levers, with grates behind them, is more than enough for short-term water supply. In the future we can add pumps to the grated tunnels to speed up water flow/drainage.

[V-Norrec]

All the same if our food is doubled (40 ingredient got transferred into 80 food last time if I read the production records correctly)  We'll be drowning in food with no barrels to put it in.  And I included a well, which should be fine for the moment.  A man-powered pump won't provide us with water in the winter however unless we have the same cistern that you seem to be against.  I've expanded the river into my fortress for every fort, it works perfectly safely in the system I described earlier.

[FuzzyZergling]

I personally think floodgates would be the better choice at the moment, with our dwarfpower at only eleven.

If we want to, we can switch to pumps when the river freezes solid again.

[Hastur]

Sandow "Yeh im watering it down with booze and waters, So making chili, broth, flambe's and such really extends our food situation, With alcohol being made into food its a big help overall. Might make it through the winter after all. Just wait till i gather the chicken eggs should be good."

[Shade-o]

Really it would be Kogan to decide how to do the irrigation, being the mechanic.

[Lillipad]

What can I do. To remove this tree. From your backyard?

[FuzzyZergling]

What can I do. To remove this tree. From your backyard?

Magma.

[V-Norrec]

Hastur, what do you not understand about NOT ENOUGH BARRELS?  Go make some more barrels if you want to cook more, if you take all our barrels, I'm going to be brewing into my hands later.  For now let's just have everyone eat some of your stew so we can free up some barrels and then you can cook up more of your food.

[Rolan7]

Sandow "Yeh im watering it down with booze and waters, So making chili, broth, flambe's and such really extends our food situation, With alcohol being made into food its a big help overall. Might make it through the winter after all. Just wait till i gather the chicken eggs should be good."

Eggdrop stew in syrup sauce.  Mmm!

[dragonshardz]

First: Yes, Hastur, please make more barrels before you do any more cooking.

Second: While a pump system may be safer. keep in mind that at the moment, this is a hole in the ground. Also, we simply don't have the dwarf power for pump and it is many, many times easier for us to simply use a floodgate-and-grate system. Unless a foe can break multiple floodgates and the floor collapses, we're pretty much safe for the moment.

[Nirur Torir]

V-Norrec: Please give a list of the pros of not using a pump, and the cons of using one.

IronyOwl: Same thing. I'd like a list of the pros of using a pump, and the cons of not using one.

[Lillipad]

I'm not sure when they'll post, so I'll just list what I can gather from their posts.

Pros of not using pumps: easier to start, less attention needs to be payed, better for the immediate future
Cons of using pumps: great attention needs to be payed to damages, a lot of manpower needs to be expended into operating it, requires a great deal of time to get working smoothly

That's Norrec's side of the argument.

Pros of using pumps: more reliable for the long term, water doesn't need to be moved as far, it's arguably more secure than a makeshift pond, no transition to a pump system has to be made
Cons of not using pumps: the transition from makeshift pond to pumps will be difficult to make, less reliable as we get further into the game, dangerous to make, water is more difficult to get

And that was IronyOwl's side. This is all from what I've read, so there is definitely some information missing, but this is(from what I've read) the most important points they touched on.

[IronyOwl]

Lillipad pretty much got it.

Pros: Much safer if things go wrong, easier to modify, don't have to start it now, pump needed at some point anyway.

Cons: Much easier to flood the fortress, easier for invaders to access, more difficult to modify (including repairs), will need to dig down a level or add a pump in the fortress anyway.

[V-Norrec]

*sigh*  Can we get an update without CoughDrop?  Also, change all my food for the day to whatever will free up barrels the fastest (drinks will remain the same)

Pros of not using pumps:  Easily started and maintained, will provide us an entire lake full of water in the winter, easily expanded upon to increase water supply as needed, easily used for cooking, drinking, and other activities as well as farming.

Cons of pumps:  More technically difficult to maintain water on the same level as the farm without flooding everything, we'd have to build a chamber to transport the water into our cistern/lake, will take a lot of manpower in order to maintain lake at maximum capacity, if the cistern isn't as maximum capacity when winter hits we might run out halfway through the growing season for some of our cave farms, the pump might be vulnerable to being broken when the water freezes.

That's about all I have.