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Total Members Voted: 11

[Samthere]

"Now now, pit fights between two sane and dutiful dwarves sounds pretty illegal to me. Between prisoners and captured creatures, fine, but we musn't forget to save our bloodlust for the non-Dwarven traders."

[Hastur]

But I'd lose quickly in a pit fight.

"You have no rights to a fair fight, win any way you can. You have only whatever rights you can enforce. We will give you nothing, win our support somehow or conclude its not worth it,cuz  we're not here to settle it for you two.

Anything worth having is worth fighting for." *whispers* "so if its not worth it just give up"

[CoughDrop]

But I'd lose quickly in a pit fight.

"You have no rights to a fair fight, win any way you can. You have only whatever rights you can enforce. We will give you nothing, win our support somehow or conclude its not worth it,cuz  we're not here to settle it for you two.

Anything worth having is worth fighting for." *whispers* "so if its not worth it just give up"

>_> No pit fighting.

[IronyOwl]

I don't see what's complicated about it. Just start arguing which one of you would make a better second in command. Or something.

Spoiler: PHILOSOPHY (click to show/hide)

"Ah, but wherein lies the difference between 'can't' and 'won't'? Is there such a difference?
NO, there is not.

If so, why does it matter for one whose answer will always be the same? If not, wherein lies the need to make a distinction?
There is no need

If nothing is responsible for itself, then nothing is in a position to change
False Dichotomry

"How is it a false dichotomy? You yourself just said there is no difference, now you claim both can exist?

If all is hot, there is no cold;
Demonstrably false because temperature is measurable.

"As is choice, but if everything is the same temperature, there's no such thing as temperature. Since you're trying to say everything is predetermined, everything is the same, and there's no such thing as choice- or lack of choice.

if all is predetermined, there is no irresponsibility.
True, but you can still punish people for seeming irresponsible, or whatver reason really *i could go further into this but...*.

"So now you're trying to say we should punish people based on illusions?

To say that no creature can truly be held accountable for its actions is to say that all creatures must be held accountable for their actions, as surely as to say there is no such thing as wealth is to admit there can be no such thing as debt."
Nonsense, False Dichotomy, and Irrelevent. I will be ignoring babbling like these from now on. *facepalm*

"You're far too used to conversing with a mindless golem."

Maybe we could structure it like a political debate or something. I'm fine with you two just talking, but if you really need some structure I guess we could ask questions.

Incidentally, I find it quite ironic how much trouble we're going through over who gets backup leader, considering how quick we picked an actual leader.

[Shade-o]

How about I roll three rounds of debate, and the winner gets the job plus a trait?

[FuzzyZergling]

Yes, let us question them.
They shall be tested.

[Nirur Torir]

Ask your questions, bridgekeepers of power. I am not afraid.

[Hastur]

*sarcastically* "Lets all give ourselves all sorts of Titles and prance and mince around in a great big circlejerk. I declare myself Lord of the the Dance!

Im not about to follow somebody who didnt really want it. Why dont you guys just flip a coin then."

[Nirur Torir]

It's worth fighting for, just not worth the 83% chance of my head exploding.

[Shade-o]

Commencing rolls. Since neither of you have any particular bonuses to social communication and intellectualism, it's roughly equal.

Kogan wins!

[Hastur]

"if you cant command by force then how will you lead? Respect? Consent? Consent begins and ends with the individual, A leader must impose their will over others, otherwise it is just everyone doing what they feel like. Personally I cant trust somebodys decisions untill I am satisfied it is in my best interest to do so.

Cant we all just do what we feel like? We are not kobolds, we are dwarves, and we have a sense of unity to keep us functioning together already. I feel a sense of duty to everyone else, Is there anybody here who would not sacrifice for one another (except that guy who didnt want to dig for me you know who you are). The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. A great dwarf once said that."

[Rolan7]

*sarcastically* "Lets all give ourselves all sorts of Titles and prance and mince around in a great big circlejerk. I declare myself Lord of the the Dance!

"[ I ] am the true Lord of the Dance.  No matter what those idiots at work say."
Gotta love Weird Al.

[Nirur Torir]

Commencing rolls. Since neither of you have any particular bonuses to social communication and intellectualism, it's roughly equal.

Kogan wins!

Praise be to Armok!

"if you cant command by force then how will you lead? Respect? Consent? Consent begins and ends with the individual, A leader must impose their will over others, otherwise it is just everyone doing what they feel like. Personally I cant trust somebodys decisions untill I am satisfied it is in my best interest to do so.

A government that rules by force is barely better then anarchy.

Cant we all just do what we feel like? We are not kobolds, we are dwarves, and we have a sense of unity to keep us functioning together already. I feel a sense of duty to everyone else, Is there anybody here who would not sacrifice for one another (except that guy who didnt want to dig for me you know who you are). The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. A great dwarf once said that."

What are you getting at? While it's just us, I agree that we have no great need of a leader. What about when we have 50 dwarves here? 200? 1000?

[Hastur]

*whispers* "Just between you and me, I think i was getting at if you are gonna tell me what to do, lets see you try and make me, or anyone else. Good point on about the future though, We will assimilate migrants into the status quo, our status quo. I wouldnt waste any time on this really if it were up to me, but here I am anyways. I do like you better now though."

[Shade-o]

Alright, so if everybody is happy with their actions on page 110...

CoughDrop, do you want Mikhail to do something else?