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Total Members Voted: 11

[Hastur]

"As long as one's mind is sound they are in full control, even if it leads to anger that clouds the mind it is still their choice."

"If you poke a potato bug hard enough, will it not roll up? If you enrage a soldier ant  will it not bite back?If you Provoke bees nest will they not sting away? You only need to see one ants actions to predict their actions. But how many bees will it take for you to be satisfied that they will defend their nest? If you study 12 lizards wont you be able to determine their actions? How many Chickens must you know untill they no longer no longer statistically surprise you? 50?, how many horses must you experience before you know how to get them to do what you want? 100? Penguins seems complex with their own personalities but how many do you think it would take for you to learn about before you could learn their ways? 1000? Dogs have their own personalities, but they are all trained one way, however many thousands dogs exist they all respond the same ways, They exist and they can be trained and molded to do whatever comes naturally, its all cause and effect. Did the gods not make us out of the same matter as the animals, we are only more complex, People can be trained with cause and effect same as any being. Just because you cannot comprehend the complexities of the dwarven mind does not mean it it is fuelled by magic and violates causality. Water cooled far enough, HAS TO freeze, A pillar unsuppored HAS TO fall down, A Convict Lobotomised HAS TO be passive, An Convict castrated will no longer feel lust. Dogs have been BRED to be our servants, Chickens are BRED to lay more eggs, Horses are BRED for speed, Warriors are BRED to be more savage. To Throw away all evidence and claims its a magical choice that violates the course of nature is to wallow in ignorace and denial. We are part of the natural world after all. you cannot choose to be or do something you would otherwise not be/do."

[Shade-o]

Novice Philosopher.

I think.

[CoughDrop]

OOoooo. Can we post him at the front gate and have him talk to himself so much that he would deter dragons with infallible logic away? Might not work against dumber creatures as they'd probably look at each other dumb-struck then slowly come to the conclusion of killing him...

[V-Norrec]

Ugg this philosophical crap is too boring to read.  How do we want this debate to be structured so I can wash this out of my head with angry yelling and coarse language?

[Lillipad]

You could take drugs and drink heavily afterward. That will wipe your brain clean better than any soap ever will.

[Hastur]

" I will not be satisfied with anything less than a pit fight. Debates will only leave people with doubt and uncertainty as to who won. I bet Victory in a debate will be subjective."

[IronyOwl]

"If you poke a potato bug hard enough, will it not roll up? If you enrage a soldier ant  will it not bite back?If you Provoke bees nest will they not sting away? You only need to see one ants actions to predict their actions. But how many bees will it take for you to be satisfied that they will defend their nest? If you study 12 lizards wont you be able to determine their actions? How many Chickens must you know untill they no longer no longer statistically surprise you? 50?, how many horses must you experience before you know how to get them to do what you want? 100? Penguins seems complex with their own personalities but how many do you think it would take for you to learn about before you could learn their ways? 1000? Dogs have their own personalities, but they are all trained one way, however many thousands dogs exist they all respond the same ways, They exist and they can be trained and molded to do whatever comes naturally, its all cause and effect. Did the gods not make us out of the same matter as the animals, we are only more complex, People can be trained with cause and effect same as any being. Just because you cannot comprehend the complexities of the dwarven mind does not mean it it is fuelled by magic and violates causality. Water cooled far enough, HAS TO freeze, A pillar unsuppored HAS TO fall down, A Convict Lobotomised HAS TO be passive, An Convict castrated will no longer feel lust. Dogs have been BRED to be our servants, Chickens are BRED to lay more eggs, Horses are BRED for speed, Warriors are BRED to be more savage. To Throw away all evidence and claims its a magical choice that violates the course of nature is to wallow in ignorace and denial. We are part of the natural world after all. you cannot choose to be or do something you would otherwise not be/do."

"Ah, but wherein lies the difference between 'can't' and 'won't'? Is there such a difference?

If so, why does it matter for one whose answer will always be the same? If not, wherein lies the need to make a distinction? If nothing is responsible for itself, then nothing is in a position to change, and there remains no reason to fathom such a concept. Why, then, is there any reason to give it a name? If all is hot, there is no cold; if all is predetermined, there is no irresponsibility. To say that no creature can truly be held accountable for its actions is to say that all creatures must be held accountable for their actions, as surely as to say there is no such thing as wealth is to admit there can be no such thing as debt."

 

[CoughDrop]

" I will not be satisfied with anything less than a pit fight. Debates will only leave people with doubt and uncertainty as to who won. I bet Victory in a debate will be subjective."

Does our great philosopher have any better, non-physical solutions?

[V-Norrec]

((Can we cut the random philosophical bullshit and get a debate structure set up so we can advance the story?))

[CoughDrop]

((Can we cut the random philosophical bullshit and get a debate structure set up so we can advance the story?))

This.

[Samthere]

To be honest, I don't feel comfortable with Litast being the decision regarding positions of power, although picking a second-in-command who only steps in when she's unavailable is fine. We don't want all of the government to be one group of friends, do we?

[Hastur]

"I wanna see a fight! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! 2 DWARF ENTER ONE DWARF LEAVE! DIG A FIGHTIN PIT!! Its the most efficient solution, lets dig a pit while you argue about debate structure *groan*"

*Golem digs a fighting pit 3x3, or 5x5 if they take a long time to finish their debating*

[V-Norrec]

Then let's just have a pit fight, this debate thing is far too complicated anyhow.  Pit-fight, over, done with, move on.

[Nirur Torir]

But I'd lose quickly in a pit fight.

[Hastur]

"If you poke a potato bug hard enough, will it not roll up? If you enrage a soldier ant  will it not bite back?If you Provoke bees nest will they not sting away? You only need to see one ants actions to predict their actions. But how many bees will it take for you to be satisfied that they will defend their nest? If you study 12 lizards wont you be able to determine their actions? How many Chickens must you know untill they no longer no longer statistically surprise you? 50?, how many horses must you experience before you know how to get them to do what you want? 100? Penguins seems complex with their own personalities but how many do you think it would take for you to learn about before you could learn their ways? 1000? Dogs have their own personalities, but they are all trained one way, however many thousands dogs exist they all respond the same ways, They exist and they can be trained and molded to do whatever comes naturally, its all cause and effect. Did the gods not make us out of the same matter as the animals, we are only more complex, People can be trained with cause and effect same as any being. Just because you cannot comprehend the complexities of the dwarven mind does not mean it it is fuelled by magic and violates causality. Water cooled far enough, HAS TO freeze, A pillar unsuppored HAS TO fall down, A Convict Lobotomised HAS TO be passive, An Convict castrated will no longer feel lust. Dogs have been BRED to be our servants, Chickens are BRED to lay more eggs, Horses are BRED for speed, Warriors are BRED to be more savage. To Throw away all evidence and claims its a magical choice that violates the course of nature is to wallow in ignorace and denial. We are part of the natural world after all. you cannot choose to be or do something you would otherwise not be/do."

"Ah, but wherein lies the difference between 'can't' and 'won't'? Is there such a difference?
NO, there is not.

If so, why does it matter for one whose answer will always be the same? If not, wherein lies the need to make a distinction?
There is no need
If nothing is responsible for itself, then nothing is in a position to change
False Dichotomry
, and there remains no reason to fathom such a concept. Why, then, is there any reason to give it a name?
Because Choise in an Illusion, the illusions exists in peoples mind, the choice does not.
 If all is hot, there is no cold;
Demonstrably false because temperature is measurable.
 if all is predetermined, there is no irresponsibility.
True, but you can still punish people for seeming irresponsible, or whatver reason really *i could go further into this but...*.
To say that no creature can truly be held accountable for its actions is to say that all creatures must be held accountable for their actions, as surely as to say there is no such thing as wealth is to admit there can be no such thing as debt."
Nonsense, False Dichotomy, and Irrelevent. I will be ignoring babbling like these from now on. *facepalm*

 

*shakes head dissapointedly*