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Total Members Voted: 11

[CoughDrop]

Why do we punish? If it is to reap vengence then what does vengence gain us? It does not help our food supplies, it does not help us dig. It is a wild goose chase. Let go of your retributive emotions, you can sacrifice them for material gain, material gain for the whole community. Do not the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? there is still much work to be done. The future of the fortress demands it!

So you think we should accept Mikhail back into our society? The reason for punishment is to keep other people from doing whatever they please. I wouldn't feel the need for punishment if I could trust everyone, but sadly, I cannot.

[Lillipad]

Rolan is the only person I'd have to give up on fighting if I plan on escaping, since that is the only other character with a crossbow, and is also the only character that has a skill set designed for forest combat.

dragonshardz: I'm the only one that got chainmail on the embark team, so you'd have to wait for Samthere to make you some, and by then I'd be long gone.

[Cheddarius]

Lillipad will not kill again. He killed because Norrec was going around saying how he would torture people who wanted privacy, make your life miserable if you didn't do what he said, etc. There is nobody else like that.

[CoughDrop]

Lillipad will not kill again. He killed because Norrec was going around saying how he would torture people who wanted privacy, make your life miserable if you didn't do what he said, etc. There is nobody else like that.

Norrec did not have any more authority than anyone else. So you are saying that anyone that thinks a certain way should be killed if their idea is too extreme?

Edit: Sorry, I meant that more towards Lillipad than you. Though I doubt Lillipad will kill again (unless he and Shem have a throwdown), what would happen if immigrants were to find out that one of our founding Dwarves had killed in cold blood and not been punished?

[Hastur]

The THREAT of punishment is what keeps people in line. Mikhail if guilty has already punished herself by leaving us. Another punishment would be half rations or execution, I dont see a need to punish a killer if that killer has no more reason to kill. Would you kill a jelous husband driven berzerk with rage due to rare circumstances? If no then you agree with me already, if yes then i'd like to know if you would kill all people with a potential to snap and go berzerk. I think it lies within all of us and a little civility goes a long way in preventing tantrum spirals. If you would kill every potential murderer then why not kill everyone else, what makes Mikhail so special, Killing once before does not in and of itself increase the chances of killing in the future, we are in no more danger than if we ignored the killing in the first place, she was a potential killer both before and after Norrecs death (as are we all). If you dont feel you can trust people around you what keeps you from killing those you dont trust. Maybe Mikhail had no trust for Norrec?, are you a potential murderer? Maybe we should all be kept in cages for each others safety?  Am i making any sense?

I think we should determine who killed norrec, why , and determine if keeping them around is a risk we are willing to take. Exile is a solution already given to us by mikhail, but theres no need to loose another dwarf in her pursuit is what im saying, even if its only for a week or two.

As for future immigrants, we can THREATEN them with punishment all we like. Hell if it would please you i can engrave a rich history of punishment on our walls, lets say 15 came with us on our embark and 4 were killed for various offenses, maybe for not working hard enough eh? would motivating the immagrants like that please you?

[Lillipad]

When did Mikhail become female?

[dragonshardz]

*meaningless psychological babble*

He killed Norrec. He will pay. That doesn't necessarily mean his death.

Okay, no chainmail. Going after Mikhail anyway.

[CoughDrop]

The THREAT of punishment is what keeps people in line. Mikhail if guilty has already punished herself by leaving us. Another punishment would be half rations or execution, I dont see a need to punish a killer if that killer has no more reason to kill. Would you kill a jelous husband driven berzerk with rage due to rare circumstances? If no then you agree with me already, if yes then i'd like to know if you would kill all people with a potential to snap and go berzerk. I think it lies within all of us and a little civility goes a long way in preventing tantrum spirals. If you would kill every potential murderer then why not kill everyone else, what makes Mikhail so special, Killing once before does not in and of itself increase the chances of killing in the future, we are in no more danger than if we ignored the killing in the first place, she was a potential killer both before and after Norrecs death (as are we all). If you dont feel you can trust people around you what keeps you from killing those you dont trust. Maybe Mikhail had no trust for Norrec?, are you a potential murderer? Maybe we should all be kept in cages for each others safety?  Am i making any sense?

I think we should determine who killed norrec, why , and determine if keeping them around is a risk we are willing to take. Exile is a solution already given to us by mikhail, but theres no need to loose another dwarf in her pursuit is what im saying, even if its only for a week or two.

What does the threat of punishment weigh if there is no actual punishment? I was not suggesting going after Mikhail to make him pay for his actions (Shem did that of his own accord). I do not fully believe that Mikhail has no motive to kill again, as he has shown extremely belligerent behavior before for no apparent reason. As for the argument of killing everyone that could be a potential murderer, just go back to the threat of punishment (which would be nothing without actual punishment).

[Lillipad]

Notice that my kills consist of nothing but goblins and Norrec. Norrec's kills consist of 19 other dwarfs. I'm actually the less violent of the two of us, statistically speaking.

[IronyOwl]

*meaningless psychological babble*

He killed Norrec. He will pay. That doesn't necessarily mean his death.

Okay, no chainmail. Going after Mikhail anyway.

Just remember:

A. Time you spend chasing him is time you're not doing more productive things

B. If you get into a fight with him, even if you win you might get wounded and be out of commission for a while

[dragonshardz]

Just remember:

A. Time you spend chasing him is time you're not doing more productive things

B. If you get into a fight with him, even if you win you might get wounded and be out of commission for a while

A. Worth it.

B. Worth it.

[Shade-o]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CoughDrop]

Denrhymed hates Mikhail, the guy that killed Norrec, the guy that hated Denrhymed???

[Shade-o]

It knew Norrec as a worthy adversary. It does not like being cheated of glory.

[Rolan7]

New schedule:

0000-0700: Sleep (interrupted by Norrec's murder)
0700-0800: Breakfast of Water and Sandow Stew
0800-1100: Go hunting with crossbow and leather armor
1100-1200: Build a butcher's shop with the tools Samthere made
1200-1800: Try to butcher all the dead animals we have
1800-1900: Watch the sun set at camp.  Honor Kun with Urist
1900-2000: Dinner of water and Num Num Roll
2000-2300: Borrow the shovel and move fertile soil to the farm plot
2300-2400: Sleep, exhausted