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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Did you even glance over the link I provided? If not, you should, it'll be an eye opener.

I added my response to a previous post on the last page.

The Ku Klux Klan is still allowed to exist as an organization in the US. That's pretty RAEGworthy if you ask me.

They'll come around or die out sooner or later. The sheer lack of public support will see to that. Like I said before, I refuse to supress anyone's right to free speech, not even that of those evil bastards.

[G-Flex]

[

You actually think that there's no such thing as race or sex based discrimination in the United States? I'm honestly not even sure what to say to that.

You actually go along with the assumption that of course the United States is just as much of a racist, sexist hellhole as it was before the Civil Rights Movement, because everyone knows that's true?

No, which is why I never said that in the first place. I know it's easy to argue against things you made up and that I never said, but it doesn't help matters.

I'm trying to point out that I never denied that racists and sexists existed in the United States, just not in the magnatude that they can be reduced through any other method than waiting for them to abandon their backwards ideas on their own, and that there seems to be some sort of assumption among people that the US is some horrifically racist nation on the whole.

Bullshit. You said that you've never seen cases where people "lose opportunity" because of race, and claimed that it isn't a problem that they do, and that you haven't seen evidence of it. Don't backpedal.

[Virex]

More interesting material to read. It's getting harder to claim that it's just the minorities perception of things when it comes to oppression...

[Argembarger]

Westboro Catholic Church comes to mind. (The ones that protest at military funerals, telling grieving families that their children died because they were homosexual and hated by God)

As does the protests of the mosque going up in NYC.

The issues with "Don't-ask-don't-tell" and gay marriage.

Actually, a lot of the issues revolve around homosexuality right now, but there they are. And people from the Middle East. And Mexicans.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Bullshit. You said that you've never seen cases where people "lose opportunity" because of race, and claimed that it isn't a problem that they do, and that you haven't seen evidence of it. Don't backpedal.

Both of my statements can be true. I've never seen it happen, despite the existance of these racists and sexists, and I'm not certain why. Perhaps they mostly live in backwater areas and keep to themeselves. Perhaps most are too smart to practice what they preach because they know it won't end well. Perhaps some don't even really believe the things they're saying at all, just parroting what they're parents told them to say. I don't know.

[G-Flex]

Let's not forget the last presidential election. There was plenty of racism and cultural prejudice going on against Obama, from drawings of him as a monkey to allegations that he was some sort of unAmerican Muslim born in Kenya (you think that would ever happen to a white guy?).

Both of my statements can be true. I've never seen it happen, despite the existance of these racists and sexists, and I'm not certain why. Perhaps they mostly live in backwater areas and keep to themeselves. Perhaps most are too smart to practice what they preach because they know it won't end well. Perhaps some don't even really believe the things they're saying at all, just parroting what they're parents told them to say. I don't know.

If you haven't seen it happen but know that it's true, then why did you specifically ask for evidence before even considering the idea? Why would you ask for evidence for something you already know exists?

The fact is that, yes, a lot of it is more implicit than explicit, and people's ideas affect their actions more often than they'd actually admit.

[Vector]

Show me evidence of this, any at all, and I'll give your ideas more consideration, but otherwise I simply cannot.

In my high school, there was a girl running for class president.  Her opponent posted messages on facebook, saying: "Do you really want someone who bleeds once a month in office?"  When I told a male friend about this, they simply said: "Well, he does have a point, you know."  He wasn't making a joke.  He actually meant it.

I have had professors tell me, in math class, as I did work in my head: "What, do you think computation isn't women's work?"

The Berkeley math department has no women's restrooms on some of the floors.  Every floor has a men's restroom.

I have never had a female math TA.

I have never had a female math professor.

In my martial arts class, I have heard other women be called "stupid lazy bitches" because they did not move fast enough.  I have never heard a man be referred to in this way, or equivalent, when he performs the same actions.  A woman who does not perform is insulted in her character.  A man who does not perform is told to straighten up and get his ass in gear, because he is a disgrace to the dojo.

I do not remember seeing men hit as punishment during their training.  I was.  I took martial arts from the same people for two years.  I came back four years later and they were still acting the same way.

In the same dojo, I was used to mock the rest of the students because I was small, and female, and I still fought harder than they did.

I grew up with my (male) cousins actively making fun of women as weaker, stupider, more flaky people.

In my entire childhood, I only found two authors who presented strong, realistic female characters.  Only one of those authors used a female protagonist.  I'll note that I read books for perhaps 12 hours a day, from the ages of 5 through 13.

The Bechdel test exists and I hardly ever find a work that passes it.


That's just what comes to mind after thinking for a few seconds.  I live in California.

You want to talk about women losing opportunity?

In an experiment proving the existence of stereotype threat, women who had to write that they were women performed far worse on exams than women who didn't.  Those who perform badly on standardized tests--like the AP tests and SAT--lose opportunity.

There you go.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Both of my statements can be true. I've never seen it happen, despite the existance of these racists and sexists, and I'm not certain why. Perhaps they mostly live in backwater areas and keep to themeselves. Perhaps most are too smart to practice what they preach because they know it won't end well. Perhaps some don't even really believe the things they're saying at all, just parroting what they're parents told them to say. I don't know.

If you haven't seen it happen but know that it's true, then why did you specifically ask for evidence before even considering the idea? Why would you ask for evidence for something you already know exists?

I know the racists and sexists exist, I just have yet to see them truly effect the United States in recent years. People who hold beleifs like that are practical outcasts, so the way I see it, all that they are is a dying remnent. I wanted evidence to the contrary.

There you go.

Evidence that Vector has provided. It seems I do need to reevaluate my stance.

[Leafsnail]

I was originally responding to Vector, who specified the US Government, so I assumed we were going from there. Obviously racism and sexism still exist as a problem to be adressed in the world as a whole, but my opinion states that the US has solved it's problem with racism and sexism in the active sense, only requireing a passive effort to prevent its resurgance.

So what exactly has the US government done that the UK government hasn't?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I was originally responding to Vector, who specified the US Government, so I assumed we were going from there. Obviously racism and sexism still exist as a problem to be adressed in the world as a whole, but my opinion states that the US has solved it's problem with racism and sexism in the active sense, only requireing a passive effort to prevent its resurgance.

So what exactly has the US government done that the UK government hasn't?

How should I know? I have only moderate knowlage abotu the United Kingdom's history in regards to this sort of thing. Besides, my postion has lost quite clearly.

[G-Flex]

I know the racists and sexists exist, I just have yet to see them truly effect the United States in recent years. People who hold beleifs like that are practical outcasts, so the way I see it, all that they are is a dying remnent. I wanted evidence to the contrary.

That's not true at all. Plenty of people harbor prejudices that they never get called out on because they're not the super-obvious redneck kind you see on "Cops". A lot of people have fairly subtle, misguided ideas about other groups/races/cultures/genders that they don't talk about often, or are subtle enough that nobody cares. If having some prejudiced ideas made you an outcast, most people would be outcasts.

For instance, I was in the car with a family member a few weeks ago who started complaining about Muslims as a group in a way that was pretty prejudiced, and to his credit, he knew it was prejudiced. Why isn't he a social outcast because of it? Because 1) That kind of thinking is popular enough and accepted enough that it doesn't matter, and 2) It isn't the sort of thing he's going to go blabbing about to everyone.

Say you're hiring someone and giving interviews. It's easy for your prejudice to color (no pun intended) how you view those people even without you or anybody else really noticing, and that can affect your decision.

A lot of people are prejudiced against different groups, and some of the worst of it is that insidiously subtle prejudice that affects their ideas and decisions without them even knowing about it. Not every prejudiced person is a white supremacist.


Seriously, if you think the US doesn't have racial prejudice, consider "arabs" and latinos. If you think it doesn't have religious prejudice, think about Muslims. If you think it doesn't have prejudice related to sex and gender, think about the current state of LGBT rights in general. I'm not talking "prejudice that doesn't actively affect anything" because that doesn't even exist; lots of people have these ideas to varying degrees, even if it's just through simple ignorance and lack of being exposed to better ideas, and it affects how they go about their lives and think about things.

[Rex_Nex]

My god. Does any of this really matter? Do you all really need to ramble and rant on and on for pages upon pages (And I'm expecting a good 10 more pages) about these things? Sure, they are important, but putting them on these boards are not going to help any of you one bit. If you want to make a difference, do so. You obviously seem to not care enough to try and make a change.

Urist McRex cancels Equip Flame-Retardant: Job Item Lost/Destroyed

Crap.

[Vector]

Didn't you disown this thread?

[SalmonGod]

My god. Does any of this really matter? Do you all really need to ramble and rant on and on for pages upon pages (And I'm expecting a good 10 more pages) about these things? Sure, they are important, but putting them on these boards are not going to help any of you one bit. If you want to make a difference, do so. You obviously seem to not care enough to try and make a change.

Never been a fan of this kind of interjection before.  The issues being discussed are mainly cultural, and these kinds of interactions contribute greatly to the development of culture.  A forum post may not be a revolution in itself, but think about the sum of every forum post of this nature across the internet.  If someone is available in every one to pipe in with good information and perspectives, that totals out to a lot of progress.  And people CAN be influenced by these kinds of discussions, even if it doesn't happen every time or isn't immediately obvious.

[Rex_Nex]

My god. Does any of this really matter? Do you all really need to ramble and rant on and on for pages upon pages (And I'm expecting a good 10 more pages) about these things? Sure, they are important, but putting them on these boards are not going to help any of you one bit. If you want to make a difference, do so. You obviously seem to not care enough to try and make a change.

Never been a fan of this kind of interjection before.  The issues being discussed are mainly cultural, and these kinds of interactions contribute greatly to the development of culture.  A forum post may not be a revolution in itself, but think about the sum of every forum post of this nature across the internet.  If someone is available in every one to pipe in with good information and perspectives, that totals out to a lot of progress.  And people CAN be influenced by these kinds of discussions, even if it doesn't happen every time or isn't immediately obvious.

Perhaps so. But even taking into account that conversations of that (this) nature may influence someone, this conversation has swayed far from a constructive debate. This is just a circle of "make your point", "defend", "defend", "defend". There is not much to learn here aside from the personal viewpoints of the posters and how far they will go to defend those points.