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[SHAD0Wdump]

Don't give me that crap. You knew what you were doing. When you say shit like this I pretty much have to lynch you.

Protip: Don't do shit like that again.

I won't, because I'm not putting up with your shit either.

[JanusTwoface]

You talk about policy lynches way too much man. And this is a role heavy game in particular. You could be frying good town roles with this attitude.
 Now, you could be just honestly too holed up in this crusade-ish playstyle to care about that. But if that is not the case you are making a scum play that can hide your true intention of getting off easy town lynches under this guise.
 I can only see such 'policy lynches' and meta game being harmful to this whole thing, so for the sake of meta, hypocrisy, and hopefully redemption I'm changing my vote Janus.

Stop ruining the game. Yes, I'm kinda ruining the game, but I'll count this as a lesson learned. Meanwhile I think I'll launch a crusade against you.

This is Mafia. If you want to depend solely on power roles, play some other forum game. And same as I said to Org earlier, *everyone* is likely to have a power role thus we don't actually lose more by killing one player or another.

Second, policy lynch?  I stopped pushing Org for that a *long* time ago. The blurb at the bottom of my last post was a PSA, not even a vote on any of the lurkers.

You're scummy, ergo you get lynched.

Hey Janus, did you see a chain? Or the other way around?

What does this mean?

I honestly don't know, its hard for me to form suspicions if I'm not part of the conversation, which is what I plan on doing before the day ends.

You have about 6 hours left. How's that going for you? Busy, I understand. But if you say you're going to post within a given timeframe, you should post within that given timeframe.

... loads of stuff on everyone ...

Is that in any way ordered?  Because it looks like a lot of content, but not much of it is new (which gets harder to do as the game goes on, I realize) and not much of it actually does anything.

Who do you think is scummiest? Why? And why aren't you voting for them to be lynched? Day ends in 6 hours (ish), this early in the game No Lynch isn't really an option.

JanusTwoface: Wanted a policy lynch, went on about that and not much else except for defence, then you just stopped when criptfeind attacked you for it. Then you went on to prod a lurker, great but still just as likely to be scum cleaning his hands. After this you defended yourself somemore, you're attacks seem weak and just gentle jabs to make it look like you're scumhunting. Not so sure about you.

Go back and reread why I did the first. For the second, there are far too many lurkers who get away with it on this board, thus the PSA a bit ago also. For the last, I think you're wrong. I've gone into with others before and never seem able to convince them.

Your description seems very confusing.
You say blunt. How?
And yes, i play like this.

Oh hey, you are around. Remember two days ago where you said 'Im [sic] still reading'. And this is all you come up with? I don't think you're actually still reading. I think you're lurking.

Hell no for SHADOWdump. You can't deliberately act like scum and expect to get away with it.

Alright you know what, if people are going to have that sort of attitude, this is not a game I'm going to want to be playing.

Do you really want to play a game of mafia where people can act like scum and get away with it?

Same analogy as earlier, you have every right to play as you think is fun, but if other people aren't having fun we're going to react. If your 'fun' is scummy (hint: it is), you're going to get lynched. Simple as that.

[Zathras]

First, apologies for lack of posting. I know it's ironic, since I always give lurkers endless shit, but sometimes real life does interfere. I'm catching up and will post replies, suspicions, and a brand new LurkerTracker report shortly.

I don't know how I feel about end of day being this afternoon. On the one hand, I asked for an extension because I was going to be busy, but it's 24 hrs later and I've not done much yet; on the other hand, a Shadowdump lynch seems inevitable and it would be unfair to drag it out; on the gripping hand, extending all the way to Monday may either continue or kill the great activity we have so far, so I'm undecided. If people ask for it, I'll probably support it, but I won't push for it.

[Eduren]

Extension.

I'm in class right now but I should be able to post before deadline either way.

[JanusTwoface]

Object to extension

I don't think anything would come up over the weekend that will change the lynch.  We can discuss anything up until then and tomorrow regarding tomorrow's lynch.  We'll have more information then as well.

If anyone has a strong reason to extend, I'll listen. But I doubt it.

[Jim Groovester]

I'll second that objection.

Let's just get the game moving. All the lurkers who are under scrutiny can have their chance during Day 2.

[Zathras]

Warning: wall of text ahead.


Webadict:

Right, but I keep jumping between mafia, another game, and a project that I really need to finish to pass a class. Which cuts out a lot of my time I normally spend doing this. [...] *sigh* Later, okay?

I don't buy this. Yes, I can buy that you're busy; I don't buy that whatever limited time you've been able to dedicate to the game has been wasted with useless quips about your +5 sword and basically talking about the weather. This Person quote is correct:

I'd like to point out here that Webadict has only posted about himself. Usually by now Webadict would be grilling some poor target to death, yet here he's not even asking any questions. It's not like there's a lack of targets, either.

But there have been some exceptions, like:

Nah, I just want everyone to unvote SHAD0Wdump. A Zoologist or Vigilante will take care of him, if we have either one of those roles.

This. That sums up my misgivings about a Shadowdump lynch. Sure, he's scummy, but too noobscum for us to be certain, and would waste our lynch in someone that would probably not be alive the next day anyway. But it's probably too late to change that now.

Still, Wuba is not asking questions, which to me reads anathema to Town Wuba, busy or not.


MBP:

got swamped by work, i'm still there and ill have more time to post tonight and tommorow. Ill do a big one tonight.

And yet, you didn't. That's majorly scummy. If we add your lurking on top of your usual mischievous history, I'm tempted to go after you, MysteriousBluePuppet.


Ottofar:

Yeah, I've been lurking because there were certain technical difficulties. Having electricity go on and off pretty randomly, that is.

Dude, I know nature's a bitch on your neck of the woods, but hey, batteries! At least would let you type up meaningful posts, save them, and then send them out all at once in the few minutes of electricity you get per day. You've used this excuse game after game after game; you've been town in some of them, so I don't call this a meta scumtell, but still, man, you can do better.  Your posts so far have been minimalist, repetitive, and unoriginal. Do better or fall to the lurker-axe.


Mr. Person:

Lurkers? Really? That's it? There's nothing else odd going one? KaminaSquirtle hasn't done anything scummy? Janus's Org-policy-lynch didn't ring any warning bells from you? Not even any questions for anyone? I know what attacking lurkers is, it's a last-ditch effort to look useful when you're not actually doing anything.

This was not addressed to me, but I'll field it: Yes, lurkers. Attacking lurkers is not a last ditch anything. It's an important part of maintaining activity, getting a read on everybody, reminding town that lurking hurts town, and denying scum lurking as a strategy. It is useful and valuable. But yes, you must ask questions of them (which Wuba didn't, therefore scummy) for it to work.


Jim:

I think you're scum, Zathras. You're not stirring any shit up and it's bugging me. [...] Also, yeah, Zathras is totally scum. Every other game I've seen him he's practically jumping all oever everybody for anything and in this game he's had all day to respond to my accusation and he can't be bothered? Evasive dude is scum.

(And others along these lines). I've been busy, dude, I'm catching up. But even what I had said up to that point is not as useless as you let on, is it? I've stirred shit up when I see it stir-worthy, and as I said earlier, I see lurker stirring as a particularly important part of that in a large game. It was their cloaking under the traffic that motivated me to find a way to light them up.


Leafsnail:

Your current actions aren't any better than your past ones, though.  That's the thing.

(That was about Kamina). I disagree, he did drop several tells earlier, but has mended his ways and made a seemingly honest effort to hunt. Your fixation on him with circumstancial/flimsy evidence (on his current behaviour, the earlier was justified) sounds hollow to me and a screen to avoid doing something else. On top of this:

The Whiteboard
KaminaSquirtle: Leafsnail, Org, Ottofar, SHAD0Wdump

Janus pointed this out earlier; I noticed it but couldn't post at the time. I find this very telling. A wagon on Kamina seems unwarranted, and all that vote him are guilty of one or another town-unfriendly infraction. It seems to much like scum trying to get rid of a useful player. After this was pointed out, Shadow unvoted him, which in my opinion only adds to the case against him.


Mish:

Zathras: You started off with a random vote, after this you had a pretty good post, you prodded a lurker and asked some questions and didn't really do anything too scummy, really you haven't done the best scumhunting in the thread (probably due to the lurkers) but still low on my scum list, the reason for this is (I think, I'm not the best or most experienced at mafia, so please correct me) you are too preoccupied by data, we can win this game with good ol' fashioned scumhunting, relying on data will just get us picked off day after day.

First, as others said, thank you for jumping in and making an honest effort to catch up. This is a complex game, but I have high hopes for you. About your point, at the end of the day, data is all we have. Some data are hard and trustworthy, other are circumstantial or gut-induced, but it's all data, and it all adds in some way to building a case on people. One needs to get them talking so we can learn to read them. Scumhunting and data are not opposite, one is a source for the other.

That said, I haven't formed an opinion on you yet, beyond what I said earlier: honest effort, keep it up.



As for the others, Org, Eduren and Mr.Person I don't have a strong opinion on yet; Kamina was scummy, but got better, I'd chalk it up to inexperience, but I'm unsure (he may be getting good advice on scumchat, I don't know); Criptfeind & MBP are lurking way too much, the only ones that seems still using it as scum strategy; Jim & Janus seem townie enough, but we'll see how things progress. Everyone else, either they didn't warrant a reply or I forgot them, but may remember when the lurking report goes up.

My vote remains on webadict, for the reasons at the top of this post; I'm OK with a Shadowdump lynch if that's what people want, but it still feels like a waste. I understand why people don't want to extend, and I'm OK with that too.

My top picks: Webadict, Criptfeind, Leafsnail, Shadowdump, MBP;
My medium-scummy picks: Org, Toaster, Pandar, Ottofar.

[Zathras]

And now, a brief word from our sponsors....

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Don't worry, the LurkerTracker® is here!
To make your lurking tracking experience simpler, faster, better... give LurkerTracker® a try today!

Criptfeind has posted 27 times; the last on: 2010/11/11 00:04, 40 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27]
Eduren has posted 4 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 15:18, 0 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4]
JanusTwoface has posted 25 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 15:44, 0 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25]
Jim Groovester has posted 35 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 15:48, 0 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35]
KaminaSquirtle has posted 40 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 00:06, 15 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40]
Leafsnail has posted 6 times; the last on: 2010/11/11 20:42, 19 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6]
Mephansteras has posted 13 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 10:28, 5 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]
Mish has posted 9 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 07:11, 8 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]
Mr.Person has posted 8 times; the last on: 2010/11/11 15:39, 24 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
Mysteriousbluepuppet has posted 5 times; the last on: 2010/11/11 09:05, 30 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5]
Org has posted 16 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 06:25, 9 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]
Ottofar has posted 2 times; the last on: 2010/11/11 13:50, 26 hours ago. Posts: [1][2]
Pandarsenic has posted 17 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 05:29, 10 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17]
SHAD0Wdump has posted 46 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 11:43, 4 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46]
Solifuge has posted 4 times; the last on: 2010/11/10 12:59, 51 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4]
Toaster has posted 11 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 09:49, 6 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]
ToonyMan has posted 2 times; the last on: 2010/11/10 23:21, 40 hours ago. Posts: [1][2]
Zathras has posted 17 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 16:18, 0 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17]
webadict has posted 14 times; the last on: 2010/11/11 22:07, 17 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]


Mod: please prod Criptfeind and MysteriousBluePuppet.

PS:
[1] Thanks to my dumb move the last time, ToonyMan will now appear in all reports.  8-/
[2] Solifuge has been replaced by Mish, but the list will continue to list them separately.
[3] I made a few changes to how the script calculates dates, please let me know if you see errors.

[webadict]

Webadict:

Right, but I keep jumping between mafia, another game, and a project that I really need to finish to pass a class. Which cuts out a lot of my time I normally spend doing this. [...] *sigh* Later, okay?

I don't buy this. Yes, I can buy that you're busy; I don't buy that whatever limited time you've been able to dedicate to the game has been wasted with useless quips about your +5 sword and basically talking about the weather. This Person quote is correct:

I'd like to point out here that Webadict has only posted about himself. Usually by now Webadict would be grilling some poor target to death, yet here he's not even asking any questions. It's not like there's a lack of targets, either.

But there have been some exceptions, like:

Nah, I just want everyone to unvote SHAD0Wdump. A Zoologist or Vigilante will take care of him, if we have either one of those roles.

This. That sums up my misgivings about a Shadowdump lynch. Sure, he's scummy, but too noobscum for us to be certain, and would waste our lynch in someone that would probably not be alive the next day anyway. But it's probably too late to change that now.

Still, Wuba is not asking questions, which to me reads anathema to Town Wuba, busy or not.

...

My vote remains on webadict, for the reasons at the top of this post; I'm OK with a Shadowdump lynch if that's what people want, but it still feels like a waste. I understand why people don't want to extend, and I'm OK with that too.

My top picks: Webadict, Criptfeind, Leafsnail, Shadowdump, MBP;
My medium-scummy picks: Org, Toaster, Pandar, Ottofar.

... What?

One of those quotes isn't mine. It was from a botched quote from Mr.Person.

Look, I really don't care what you think is acceptable to contribute and what isn't. The only thing I care about is getting a passing grade. If you want to lynch me for that, go ahead. If you want to wait a couple of days, then do that.

But, there's no way for me to defend against your argument. I AM busy. I'm NOT contributing enough. So, what am I supposed to do? Would you rather I gave up on school for a game where I'll probably be killed in tonight anyhow? Stop and think for a second.

What do I have to gain from telling you I'll be back after Tuesday and lurking until then? Nothing. It doesn't help me. It doesn't help the Town. Nothing. Big surprise, right? But, at least give me something to fight against if you plan to vote me. Mr.Person certainly is. You're just copying his argument.

So, cry all you want about me being busy, but why don't you make some progress scumhunting while I'm not here, so you can be satisfied lynching me because of what little evidence you gather on your own and my ego, which is probably the main reason you're voting me anyhow.

See ya on Tuesday.

[Jim Groovester]

Lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers!

Lurkers lurkers lurkers!

Lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers!

Lurkers!

Lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers!

Lol sorry, Jim. I've only been busy lurking because I've been busy.

This is all I'm hearing from you.

Jim:

I think you're scum, Zathras. You're not stirring any shit up and it's bugging me. [...] Also, yeah, Zathras is totally scum. Every other game I've seen him he's practically jumping all oever everybody for anything and in this game he's had all day to respond to my accusation and he can't be bothered? Evasive dude is scum.

(And others along these lines). I've been busy, dude, I'm catching up. But even what I had said up to that point is not as useless as you let on, is it? I've stirred shit up when I see it stir-worthy, and as I said earlier, I see lurker stirring as a particularly important part of that in a large game. It was their cloaking under the traffic that motivated me to find a way to light them up.

All I know is you suspect webadict for apparently not being webadict (he looks like webadict to me, just busy), and you really suspect 'dem lurkers. So yes, just as useless as I let on.

If I had to list the reasons I thought you were town I wouldn't know what to say. You're trying to prod lurkers into activity but that doesn't really mean anything, and neither does the Lurkertracker. The only person you're giving a hard time is webadict, but I think your reasons for that are crap, and I think you have an ulterior motive. So I'm really hard pressed to say you're actively interested in finding scum.

There's also this:

Mr. Person:

Lurkers? Really? That's it? There's nothing else odd going one? KaminaSquirtle hasn't done anything scummy? Janus's Org-policy-lynch didn't ring any warning bells from you? Not even any questions for anyone? I know what attacking lurkers is, it's a last-ditch effort to look useful when you're not actually doing anything.

This was not addressed to me, but I'll field it: Yes, lurkers. Attacking lurkers is not a last ditch anything. It's an important part of maintaining activity, getting a read on everybody, reminding town that lurking hurts town, and denying scum lurking as a strategy. It is useful and valuable. But yes, you must ask questions of them (which Wuba didn't, therefore scummy) for it to work.

Why'd you respond to this? You look really concerned about your perception to the everybody else if you're going out of your way to justify what you've been doing the whole game.

Scummy.

So when are you going to convince me that you're not scum with bold town action instead of words? I'm not really going to think otherwise without that.

[Zathras]

Webadict:

Right, but I keep jumping between mafia, another game, and a project that I really need to finish to pass a class. Which cuts out a lot of my time I normally spend doing this. [...] *sigh* Later, okay?

I don't buy this. Yes, I can buy that you're busy; I don't buy that whatever limited time you've been able to dedicate to the game has been wasted with useless quips about your +5 sword and basically talking about the weather.[...] Still, Wuba is not asking questions, which to me reads anathema to Town Wuba, busy or not.

... What? One of those quotes isn't mine. It was from a botched quote from Mr.Person.

Sorry about that, your post did have botched quotes and I guess I figured them out wrong. But see below.

So, what am I supposed to do? Would you rather I gave up on school for a game where I'll probably be killed in tonight anyhow? [...] so you can be satisfied lynching me because of what little evidence you gather on your own and my ego, which is probably the main reason you're voting me anyhow.

Nah, you probably won't hang today, thanks to people's fixation with Shadowdump. I still think hanging you is a better idea, but it'll be as the majority decides. As for why I'm voting you, it's not because you've been busy, or because of your ego, but because you haven't been asking anybody questions. What little I know of your style, you basically do only two things when town: a) ask questions, relentlessly; and b) give orders, telling people what to do and how to do it (with good reason, most of the time).

You haven't been doing either this game. Yes, you're busy, but you've not used what little time you have to play your Town game, which makes you scum in my eyes. It's not a question of volume, but of content and intent.

I don't have specific questions for you at the moment, and since the day is about to end it probably wouldn't help, plus you're busy anyway. If you want to not seem scum in my eyes, play your Town game as usual (in intent, if not in volume); if you can only do that starting Tuesday, then I'll be voting you until Tuesday (unless a scummier target comes along).

Fair?


PPE: Jim, see above for more on my Wuba vote. As for why I responded to the Person question, mostly because I feel strongly on the subject, and didn't like his "last ditch" implication. As to me doing "bold town action", I'm afraid the end of day is coming too soon for them to have any effect, but we'll see what the next couple of hours will bring.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Leafsnail:

Your current actions aren't any better than your past ones, though.  That's the thing.

(That was about Kamina). I disagree, he did drop several tells earlier, but has mended his ways and made a seemingly honest effort to hunt. Your fixation on him with circumstancial/flimsy evidence (on his current behaviour, the earlier was justified) sounds hollow to me and a screen to avoid doing something else. On top of this:

The Whiteboard
KaminaSquirtle: Leafsnail, Org, Ottofar, SHAD0Wdump

Janus pointed this out earlier; I noticed it but couldn't post at the time. I find this very telling. A wagon on Kamina seems unwarranted, and all that vote him are guilty of one or another town-unfriendly infraction. It seems to much like scum trying to get rid of a useful player. After this was pointed out, Shadow unvoted him, which in my opinion only adds to the case against him.

It almost feels like you're tying to buddy me here.  You reiterate points made in the past by others, but to what end?  What do you intend to get out of it, Zathras?

My vote remains on webadict, for the reasons at the top of this post; I'm OK with a Shadowdump lynch if that's what people want, but it still feels like a waste. I understand why people don't want to extend, and I'm OK with that too.

You seem to be OK with a lot of things, but not feel strongly about anything but lurkers and wuba.  Why so neutral about most things?

[Pandarsenic]

Zathras, do you really feel going nuts on lurkers all the time forever helps?

[Zathras]

Leafsnail:

Your current actions aren't any better than your past ones, though.  That's the thing.

(That was about Kamina). I disagree, he did drop several tells earlier, but has mended his ways and made a seemingly honest effort to hunt. Your fixation on him with circumstancial/flimsy evidence (on his current behaviour, the earlier was justified) sounds hollow to me and a screen to avoid doing something else.

It almost feels like you're tying to buddy me here.  You reiterate points made in the past by others, but to what end?  What do you intend to get out of it, Zathras?

Not buddying: assessing. Your early game was scummy, and you were rightfully called for it. You later posted useful hunting, which redeemed some past misdeed in my eyes, but I find Leafsnail's insistence on you to be insufficiently justified, and therefore scummy (when added to his other behaviour). I explicitly don't buddy you or call you town; you're inexperienced, so I cut you some slack for that on your earlier behaviour, but your getting better could be getting better as town, or getting better as scum acting town. The second would be less improbable if you're getting good advice via scumchat, so you're still suspect in my eyes, but not as far up the list as the half-dozen others I point out.

My vote remains on webadict, for the reasons at the top of this post; I'm OK with a Shadowdump lynch if that's what people want, but it still feels like a waste. I understand why people don't want to extend, and I'm OK with that too.

You seem to be OK with a lot of things, but not feel strongly about anything but lurkers and wuba.  Why so neutral about most things?

Not "a lot of things". Two things: I'm OK with lynching Shadow because he's scummy enough to have earned it, I just think that we're letting stronger targets go by focusing on the low-hanging fruit. I'm also OK with not extending, as it would be better if night happens over the weekend rather than low-traffic discussion for three days, then locking for a day or two for night. Faster games are funner games, in my opinion. Strong opinions on other matters? Mostly because I've been busy, so I've only been able to focus on a couple, and in larger games one tends to grab onto a couple of threads and pull strongly on them, rather than spread oneself too thin. That said, I have scum suspicions on Toaster and Pandar, mostly due to their laying-low game so far, but I've been unable to dig deeper as of yet.


PPE: Pandar, how auspicious of you to show up as I'm thinking of you. To answer your question: yes, I do. I think lurking kills games and hurts town, so I feel justified. We've had this discussion elsewhere, so you should know my feelings on it, yes? So why do you ask? Do you think I am misguided and should change my opinion, or are you just looking for a non-threatening non-Pandar topic of conversation to not seem lurky yet avoiding actual scumhunting?

[SHAD0Wdump]

If somehow I survive, get a replacement ASAP.

I'm done with this game of constant bitching.