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[Jim Groovester]

I think JanusTwoFace is actually now a confirmed townie.  Toaster has said that Dariush is an Agent Operative (a town only role).  Dariush has said that Jim has been scanned as town.  In order for Janus to be scum, all three of them would need to be on the same scum team - and, the largest team we could possibly have has only 2 people on.  As such, he could probably coordinate the town.

I didn't say that Jim was scanned, it was JTF.

Personally I suspect Jim but considering the majority's vote on Argembarger I doubt that counts for much. I came to that conclusion is because everyone except Argembarget and Jim has been verified (in order for Kamina to be scum, he needs to be on the same team as Toaster, which is impossible, even though his behavior is highly suspicious) and Jim is the one who hasn't put up any defense whatsoever.

What are you talking about? I didn't put up any defense whatsoever because nobody bothered attacking me. If you've got questions, noobnuts, ask them, but don't vote me for something that isn't scummy to do.

And how do you figure everybody's been verified? People's roles have been verified but in many cases not alignment. For example, your alignment depends on Toaster telling the truth. And nobody can verify Leafsnail's claim.

This is suspicious.

MOD: How would an Agent Operative appear to a Detective inspect? Would they get the full role name including the Agent part, or would they just come up as an Operative?

[Leafsnail]

And how do you figure everybody's been verified? People's roles have been verified but in many cases not alignment. For example, your alignment depends on Toaster telling the truth. And nobody can verify Leafsnail's claim.

This is suspicious.

Because we can totally verify your role?

In actual fact, I can be verified by 2 Toaster scannings.

[Jim Groovester]

That wasn't my point and you know it.

[Leafsnail]

Well, what is your point then?  That the Exterminator and Doppelganger are working together?

[Jim Groovester]

Why don't you be completely dense about it.

I take issue with Dariush's assertion that everybody is verified. I provide counterexamples. I ask him about it.

Why don't you be completely dense about this.

[Mephansteras]

MOD: How would an Agent Operative appear to a Detective inspect? Would they get the full role name including the Agent part, or would they just come up as an Operative?

For this game a Detective would see the full Role name.

I think I'll change that in the future.

[Jim Groovester]

Alright, thanks.

Anyways, here's what I think we should do over the night. Instead of doing Detective inspects to look for the Exterminator we should be doing Psychic Warden blocks because the Exterminator has a Mind Shield by default and because of Holoform Modulators role inspects are unreliable. So:

1) Lynch Argembarger, he is scum, hooray.
2) Zathras blocks Toaster.
3) KaminaSquirtle protects Zathras.

If Toaster has a Mind Shield, we lynch him tomorrow because he would obviously be the Exterminator at that point, what with an unclaimed Mind Shield.

If he doesn't, we lynch Leafsnail, because he's claimed Mind Shield and is an alien and that's two for three for the Exterminator and he probably has a Holoform Modulator with how he wants to be inspected twice.

If neither Leafsnail nor Toaster is the Exterminator, then the next day after that, lynch me because who else is it going to be.

We run into obvious problems if the Exterminator has an Advanced Mind Shield, but there's no way for us to know that. We run into even more obvious problems if Argembarger isn't scum.

But I think this is the best way to proceed through the next few days and nights. Thoughts? I'm biased, of course, since I know that I'm not the Exterminator so this plan is geared towards investigating the people I think are most likely to be the Exterminator. Since I have no part in the operation of the plan I can not protest if people want to change the details of who does what to whom.

[Dariush]

There's so much wrong with your argument that I won't even bother quoting individual errors.
1) About me and Toaster - the ONLY reason for him to be lying is to be in the same team with me. There's one dopp and exterminator about, so that's impossible.
2) I'm pretty sure that you claimed to be a Kook just so on inspection you would turn up as a dopp (if I remember the rules correctly)
3) I said that everyone was confirmed because everyone has claimed and your claim and Leafsnail's are the only ones that don't fit into the picture.
4) You offer to lynch Argembarger just because you aren't Exterminator. If he isn't scum, then... we should just wait until tomorrow and lynch someone else?

However, there is one point in what you said. Leafsnail has also offered to just waste time on checking him, so I guess you are the dopp (because of Kook claiming) and he's the exterminator.

[Jim Groovester]

1) Yes, exactly. If Toaster can be verified to not be the Exterminator then you and he are both cleared. This is why it's a good idea to block Toaster first, because it investigates two people at once.
2) Or another possibility: I am actually a Kook. Somebody has to be the kook in a Paranormal. In this game it was me. True fact: If I were a dopp I could have chosen not to believe your claim and instead lynch you over Ottofar. Why would I unnecessarily bus a a fellow dopp, especially one with a role so valuable? That would've done the dopp team a lot of good. Get rid of a town Assassin Bot, possibly protect against an Exterminator kill. Things to think about.
3) That's not the usual definition of confirmed. Being confirmed means that by role action one is unavoidably a role and alignment. There are many people who are not confirmed right now but at this point that doesn't matter too much. Role claims not fitting in a certain picture is not the definition of confirmed.
4) I don't offer to lynch Argembarger at all. I vote to lynch him because I think he is scum. I see no offering anywhere. Also, the plan I proposed makes the assumption that Argembarger is scum like I believe him to be. Obviously if he isn't then there's going to have to be a serious rethinking of town strategy.

There's so much wrong with your argument that I won't even bother quoting individual errors.

Arrogance suits you poorly.

[Dariush]

1) So, you mean that Toaster is exterminator and lied, somehow managing to get correct guesses about those he 'detected'? Hm, that makes sense, however I don't think it is likely. Will block by Zathras also prevent his detect? If no, I guess it is a good idea to block him.
2) Hm. MODERATOR, is it true that there MUST be a Kook?
3) By 'confirmed' I meant 'his role is known and he is not a scum'.
4) By 'offered to lynch' I meant 'voted for him'. Also, I'm absolutely sure that Argembarger isn't scum; as I pointed out earlier, there was no dopp kill not because Zathras blocked him, but because I stunned Web. However, you seem to ignore that argument and not offer any reasons whatsoever as to why he's scum.

I guess that extends the list of possible scum to include Toaster, but you are still at the top of it.

[Leafsnail]

Derp derp advanced mindshield derp

[Leafsnail]

1) Lynch Argembarger, he is scum, hooray.
2) Zathras blocks Toaster.
3) KaminaSquirtle protects Zathras.

Wait, sorry, Zathras blocks the guy who can let us find the exterminator for sure?

Wow, you're totally town.

If he doesn't, we lynch Leafsnail, because he's claimed Mind Shield and is an alien and that's two for three for the Exterminator and he probably has a Holoform Modulator with how he wants to be inspected twice.

I want to be inspected twice to eliminate the possibility of a Holoform Modulator, numbnuts.

If neither Leafsnail nor Toaster is the Exterminator, then the next day after that, lynch me because who else is it going to be.

Lol.

We run into obvious problems if the Exterminator has an Advanced Mind Shield

You don't say.  From how you've been acting, I'm totally sure you don't have one.

1) Yes, exactly. If Toaster can be verified to not be the Exterminator then you and he are both cleared. This is why it's a good idea to block Toaster first, because it investigates two people at once means he won't get an exterminator result on me.

Fixed.

2) Or another possibility: I am actually a Kook. Somebody has to be the kook in a Paranormal. In this game it was me. True fact: If I were a dopp I could have chosen not to believe your claim and instead lynch you over Ottofar. Why would I unnecessarily bus a a fellow dopp, especially one with a role so valuable? That would've done the dopp team a lot of good. Get rid of a town Assassin Bot, possibly protect against an Exterminator kill. Things to think about.

Lol.

[Mephansteras]

2) Hm. MODERATOR, is it true that there MUST be a Kook?

No Roles or Abilities are required for Paranormal.

[Zathras]

Hmmm.... there are complexities here. First off, unvote. I did block Arg, but the stun orb on web does make my block on him less than definitive. I'll come back to this in a second.

First, on Jim:

I have the worst role in all of Paranormal. I am a Townsperson, and I am also a Kook.

I find this very suspicious. However:

2) Or another possibility: I am actually a Kook. Somebody has to be the kook in a Paranormal. In this game it was me. True fact: If I were a dopp I could have chosen not to believe your claim and instead lynch you over Ottofar.

Nothing says there must be a kook; but it is true that your bussing Ottofar would make no sense.

MBP wasn't protecting anyone because he died in his home.

I don't think we know this for sure, as it seems to have been a morning kill. He could have gone out, protected someone who wasn't hit, then came back home at the end of the night, then got hit by the bot. Still, it does seem to mean he didn't die while protecting someone.

Well, what is your point then?  That the Exterminator and Doppelganger are working together?

This is not too far-fetched. They can't coordinate, true, but a mislynch would benefit both, and one lying to temporarily shield the other would not be a bad choice. They both have almost lost, so it could be a long shot to try and salvage something to hurt town.

Second, on Arg/Eduren:

But fine, I'm a Vengeful Guard.
N1, Eduren protected Zathras.

Why'd you pick the targets you did? What were your reasons?

Dunno what Eduren's motives were. I can only speculate, but it doesn't seem all that important to me. It could have just been a random block for all I know, or maybe Eduren knew something about Zath at the time.

Oh, I know, and I have to say: Awwwww....

Me! me! me! pick meee! in!
...been waiting for this for months. Don't you bastards dare kill me D1/N1!

First one to kill Zathras wins.

You killed Zathras! You bastards!  8-/
Srsly u guis... I want to play this game. If you kill me D1/N1, I'll spam the thread (and ALL THE OTHER THREADS) with limericks... FOREVEEEEEER! Don't make me unleash the limerickraken!

Eduren, darling, you were protecting me to ensure the forum's limerick-free existence... and letting me have a fair shake at the game. That was awfully nice of you. * blows kiss at Eduren *


On JTF's list (comments inline in purple):

Zathras - Psychic Warden (Day 2)
  (role by KaminaSquirtle & Argembarger & Toaster)
N1 - Blocked Pandarsenic, N2 - Blocked KaminaSquirtle, N3 - Blocked Argembarger

Toaster - Detective (Day 4)
N1 - Inspected KaminaSquirtle (Observant Guard), N2 - Inspected Zathras (Psychic Warden), N3 - Inspected Dariush (Agent Operative)
There is no independent confirmation on his claim, and "he's telling the truth" three nights in a row is the most non-committal possible claim. If any of them were not telling the truth, they wouldn't claim to correct him in any case. Toaster goes up in my suspicion list.

JanusTwoface - Military Mad Scientist, Assassin Bot (Day 2)
  (role & alignment by Dariush)
N1 - Killed Org, N2 - none, N3 - none
I'm not sold on the notion that he's confirmed townie. Only Dariush confirmed him, and in turn Toaster confirmed him. His play has been townie enough, but he can play a mean scum game by being too pro-town for our own good. If Dariush is the ext, as I mention later, then JTF could be the ext-op, would have the tech to kill Org, and would be the obvious target of Dariush later claiming PMs; he has gone far to try to clear Dariush.

Jim Groovester - Kook Townie (Day 4)
  (claimed Kook Townie to me in a PM a while ago)
N1 - none, N2 - none, N3 - none
Also no independent confirmation, and a claim of kook VT is the safest fakeclaim for a dopp (not so much for an exty, but still). Can you be more specific on his PM'd claim to you? When, and what else did he say? Did it raise your suspicions at the time?

Eduren/Argembarger - Vengeful Guard
N1 - Protected Zathras, N2 - Protected Jim Groovester, N3 - Protected JTF, blocked by Zathras
No independent confirmation, but plausible. Unfortunately, your play, votes and night actions are also compatible with being the last dopp. If so, you probably tried to protect wuba last night instead of JTF.

KaminaSquirtle - Observant Guard
  (role by Toaster)
N1 - Guarded Jim Groovester, N2 - Guarded Jim Groovester, blocked by Zathras, N3 - Guarded Zathras
See above about my mistrust of Toaster's claim; however I am pretty sold that Kamina is not scum, mostly because he could have had me lynched easily earlier and he didn't, and has been going against possible dopps & aliens equally strongly. Still, a possibility.

Leafsnail - Alien Survivor, Personal Shield (Night 3)
N1 - none, N2 - Shielded against doppkill, N3 - none
Plausible, but fishy. Alternative possibility: the ext did indeed not act on N2, and Leaf claimed he did, on him, "spending his shield" to clear himself.

Solifuge/Mish/Dariush - Agent Operative, Scanner, Assassin Bot, Stun Orb (Day 3)
  (role by Toaster, techs by actions)
N1 - Scanned JanusTwoface (Human), N2 - none, N3 - Killed Mysteriousbluepuppet, Stunned Webadict
My objections to Toaster's claim remain, and I point out that without that bit, he could still be the exty; bots and orbs do not use up the ext's actions, he could have killed MBP, stunned and killed wuba last night.

As I said, complications. If my count is right (please tell me if it isn't!) there's one dopp, one exterminator, and maybe an exterminator operative still about, yes? I find it plausible that the dopp & ext are at least not all out to get each other at the moment, as a mislynch would benefit both.

I think the Exterminator is one of Toaster, Dariush or Jim. The dopp is probably Argembarger, or maybe Leafsnail. The ext-op could be JTF or Leafsnail.

So, Toaster. Mostly because I don't trust his inspection results ("they all told the truth" is far too convenient a fakeclaim), but I'll support a lynch of Dariush or Argembarger as well.


Mod: clarification please: An operative gets 1 medium tech and 2 small, yes? Can the two small be exchanged for one medium? By this I mean: can an operative get both an assassin bot and combat camo? Also, the ext and ext-op can share tech; how does this work with combat camo? Say the ext chose camo, but gave it to the op for night one, then the ext's kill will not be masked, but the op's kill would, yes?

[Jim Groovester]

As I said, complications. If my count is right (please tell me if it isn't!) there's one dopp, one exterminator, and maybe an exterminator operative still about, yes? I find it plausible that the dopp & ext are at least not all out to get each other at the moment, as a mislynch would benefit both.

What makes you think they're not out to get each other? The Exterminator killed webadict last night. There's no reason to assume that just because a mislynch benefits both of them that they're going to work together towards that. They'd probably both really like it if the other was lynched today so they don't have to worry about getting night killed.

Derp derp advanced mindshield derp

No shit, Sherlocke. If you've got a problem with my plan then think of a better one.

ohwait youre the exterminator you dont care

I want to be inspected twice to eliminate the possibility of a Holoform Modulator, numbnuts.

But the Holoform Modulator is exactly why role inspects are unreliable.

What's to stop whoever the Exterminator is from just killing Toaster tomorrow night after he gets whatever inspect the Holoform Modulator gives him? This is your plan, isn't it?

1) So, you mean that Toaster is exterminator and lied, somehow managing to get correct guesses about those he 'detected'? Hm, that makes sense, however I don't think it is likely. Will block by Zathras also prevent his detect? If no, I guess it is a good idea to block him.
2) Hm. MODERATOR, is it true that there MUST be a Kook?
3) By 'confirmed' I meant 'his role is known and he is not a scum'.
4) By 'offered to lynch' I meant 'voted for him'. Also, I'm absolutely sure that Argembarger isn't scum; as I pointed out earlier, there was no dopp kill not because Zathras blocked him, but because I stunned Web. However, you seem to ignore that argument and not offer any reasons whatsoever as to why he's scum.

I guess that extends the list of possible scum to include Toaster, but you are still at the top of it.

1) He wouldn't have to guess, he would just have to use the claims everybody had made at that point to construct a reasonable list of targets for a Detective inspect. But I'm fairly inclined to believe him, because the people he chose (or claimed to choose) is an extremely reasonable list that matches well with his suspicions at the time as well as current events during the game. So that's why I think it's a good idea to verify him first.
2) You heard it from Meph that there doesn't have to be one. But I am one.
3) Then quit using confirmed like that. It has specific meaning.
4) Are you certain it was your stun on webadict that prevented the dopp kill and not Zathras' block on Argembarger? There's no way you can be absolutely certain about that.

But alright. Here's why Argembarger is scum, although I don't understand why I have to do this because I've been saying that Argembarger is scum for a while now and it's not like this is anything new. So how about I quote myself on the matter.

Spoiler: Quoting myself is awesome. (click to show/hide)

So, everyone else, before the day ends please state your top picks for the record. A thought or two next to each would be greatly appreciated.

Argembarger - Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh he's giving me really scummy vibes. He FoSed Leafsnail and Ottofar without a reason but didn't vote Ottofar, who he said he suspected, he attacked JTF for stupid reasons which he gave up after people had corrected him, and I get the feeling he's trying to contribute without actually doing anything, like when he asked all those useless questions.

And yeah, Ottofar and Argembarger are scum, and I've said as much earlier as Zathras just pointed out. Either way, an Exterminator or an Agent Operative is a threat to them so they lose nothing by choosing not to believe the claim and sitting back, hoping that he gets lynched.

Jim
-Aggressive as hell. But he's been getting so many effective results. I'm almost certain he's town.

If you think my results are effective, then why don't you share my suspicions? This doesn't add up.

You're buddying me. Now that I have cause to look over your posts, I don't generally find them to be exceptionally stellar. Lots of weak pokes, lurker prodding, general lack of strong suspicions. Additionally, I don't like it when people assume the moral high ground in Mafia games. It gives them a position to attack people, but it does absolutely nothing in helping find scum. Thus, scum like to do it.

*sniff*

I'm thinking you might be scum, Argembarger. Why are you buddying me, and why didn't you bring up this JTF stuff earlier, like when you read it? People have had the exact same problems that you do now, and they brought it up with him, so why all of a sudden do you have a problem with it? If you were going to have a problem with it for moral considerations or whatever it is you suspect him for this would've occurred to you a lot earlier.

The first quote is the most relevant.

Argembarger chose not to believe your claim, which is something he shared with webadict and Ottofar who both surprise surprise turned out to be scum. Then there was his throng of completely useless questions which he asked just to look like he was trying to contribute and then his reasonless FoSes on Ottofar and Leafsnail which he withdrew. (Why would anyone give a reasonless FoS on two people, one of whom flipped scum? Hint: He was trying to distance himself from them two when they flipped scum.)

He flipped the fuck out at JTF after somebody pointed out that he was just generally prodding lurkers and being useless so in response he made a giant attack that was completely unoriginal and disingenuous because if he had problems with what JTF had done he would have had them when he read through the thread the first time because people already pointed out these problems as they happened.

This is all stuff I have said before.

So there's my argument against Argembarger. If you had paid closer attention you would've realized that my suspicion of Argembarger is nothing new and to say that I have offered no reasons for why he is scum is a bunch of crap.

Also, your argument against me sucks. I have a scummy claim. It is also the truth. You got anything else?

Why's everybody so quiet? There's stuff to talk about, like what to do, and everybody's quiet for some reason.