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Author Topic: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Game Over!  (Read 245748 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #705 on: November 30, 2010, 07:23:16 pm »

Wrong. There's one contradicting a potential scum tell, another saying who I don't think is scum and who still could be (read the long version for more on KaminaSquirtle, which you obviously haven't), and the point on Ottofar is quite obviously who should be lynched.
First is ridiculously weak since it isn't followed up with anything.  Second is basically "I don't know who to lynch out of you".  Third is "I think he's the primary lynch target", which is... well, I guess it's telling us "nothing's changed" once again.

Even beyond that, a quite solid percentage is game related in some form or another, the exception being the mathy bit of 1.5 townie deaths mostly being intended as humorous (even if true mathematically).
Pulling a statistic out of your ass isn't particularly helpful.

The part I think you just completely don't get is that if you ignore everything but what is obviously scummy / scumtells in general, you are going to lose against anyone but an obvious noobscum team.  Even semi-talented scum know how to hide scum tells. What you have to look at instead is how they're trying to help the town. Are they helping the town win or just helping the town? Essentially, it comes down to starting with everyone is scum and removing candidates (by feel or by lynch) until you have the scum.
Ok, do that rather than writing pages of fluff next time.  I mean, take the bolded sentence.  Did you help remove anyone in that post "by feel"?
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #706 on: November 30, 2010, 07:37:39 pm »

Oh hey Janus, I don't think you got my idea on Zath exterminator. What i mean it,s that if Zathras is the exterminator, Hes better off NOT doing anything. No kill put suspicion on mish, wich give him at least another day clear. Really, i go on and on and on about it, since nobody seems to understand. Zathras is not a confirmed ANYTHING, all we got is Him and Kamina voice. May i remind you that they bot defend the other ( Kamina is being so damn obvious about it , it's not even funny) Townies dont do that, it's a scum job to protect a scum.

Funny thing, everyone is ok with an extemrinator, but the presence of an operative wont seem realist to you?  That the operative job, to give a chance for the exterminator. Its not hard to conceive that if we got one we can get the other.

Janus just open your damn eyes. You say that Kamina may be scum, and all that. So then why do you keep on protecting Zathras, who you are sure is confirmed of maybe the most possible scum right now ? have you lost your mind?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #707 on: November 30, 2010, 07:51:28 pm »

You're imbuing Zathras with near impossible levels of foresight and wisdom. You're suggesting that Zathras chose not to kill last night because he knew that Mish was not going to return to post. How would he know that? And why didn't Zathras bring it up if that was his plan?
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #708 on: November 30, 2010, 07:59:44 pm »

First is ridiculously weak since it isn't followed up with anything.  Second is basically "I don't know who to lynch out of you".  Third is "I think he's the primary lynch target", which is... well, I guess it's telling us "nothing's changed" once again.
- The entire point is that there's nothing to follow up with on that particular attack.
- I know not to lynch Zathras and I think that it's entirely possible that KaminaSquirtle is scum
- Nothing has changed, Ottofar is still scummy.

Ok, do that rather than writing pages of fluff next time.  I mean, take the bolded sentence.  Did you help remove anyone in that post "by feel"?
Yes.  Webadict and Zathras are more likely town.  Mysteriousbluepuppet is more obviously noobish, but probably not scum. Ottofar is just as scummy/useless as ever.  KaminaSquirtle looks scummier than Day 1 or 2.



Oh hey Janus, I don't think you got my idea on Zath exterminator. What i mean it,s that if Zathras is the exterminator, Hes better off NOT doing anything. No kill put suspicion on mish, wich give him at least another day clear. Really, i go on and on and on about it, since nobody seems to understand. Zathras is not a confirmed ANYTHING, all we got is Him and Kamina voice. May i remind you that they bot defend the other ( Kamina is being so damn obvious about it , it's not even funny) Townies dont do that, it's a scum job to protect a scum.
He's not confirmed. That's completely true. It's just that there's only two possibilties:

- Zathras and KaminaSquirtle are Exterminator and Operative (not necessarily in that order) and the Exterminator didn't nightkill for the WIFOM
- Zathras is a Psychic Warden

The second is far more likely with the absent Mish (or even someone else that just forgot to send in a night action) being the Exterminator.

Funny thing, everyone is ok with an extemrinator, but the presence of an operative wont seem realist to you?  That the operative job, to give a chance for the exterminator. Its not hard to conceive that if we got one we can get the other.
But if Zathras and KaminaSquirtle actually are Exterminator and Operative, then they're taking quite a risk.  If either of them dies, we know immediately what the other is and we'll lynch them. 

Heck, it actually makes sense for the Dopps to night kill one of them and do our dirty work for us because the know that if they one they kill is an Alien, we'll spend a lynch on the other and otherwise, they have a perfect target to kill/get WIFOM from.  Of course, if I thought of it, I'm sure one of them did, so who knows what they'll actually do now.

Janus just open your damn eyes. You say that Kamina may be scum, and all that. So then why do you keep on protecting Zathras, who you are sure is confirmed of maybe the most possible scum right now ? have you lost your mind?
No. I happen to think that it's more likely that Zathras is Psychic Warden. If that's the case, there are better lynch targets for today, even a Dopp Psychic Warden isn't that problematic.  Ottofar is good to lynch, KaminaSquirtle is scummy for trying to tie his alignment to Zathras', I would love to see Leafsnail hang just because he's being annoying, and Darius is a decently likely Exterminator.

(To those without a sarcasm detector: I don't actually think we should lynch Leafsnail because he's being annoying. I just wish that we could.)

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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #709 on: November 30, 2010, 08:13:41 pm »

Actually no.

Possibilitys

The exterminator is Mish, did no kill due to absence ( all is good, Zath is not the exterminator)

Exterminator is not Zathras: Why would he not kill anybody? No good reason to refrain since all the suspicion was on Zath.  They are not blocked by wardens

Exterminator is zathras : There we got some choice.

 He tried to kill someone but got blocked, unlikely, else the guardien implicated could have claimed (if he want to do it anonymously, i can transmit the message). I also have very good reason to believe no guardian was involved.

Or he simply did nothing. Considering that he need to leave home to exterminate someone, he could have been followed if he left home. That would have been more than enough to hang him, since warden always stay at home. Again, thats pretty likely, if i was a reporter, thats the first thing id have done. (if you wonder, i am not)

So 2 more likely choices : Mish or Zath.

Mish is the extemrinator. I'm wrong and misguided. Sad, but i can deal with it.

zathras is the exterminator : Would at least explain a bit of the weird thing we got between Kamina and Zath. Would also explain the scumtells of Kamina way back day 1. And the ultra jumpy reactions, and the chainsaw defence. And zathras curious way of not talking about Kamina, not questionning him seriously or anything.

Again, my solution aint something hard, kamina as been a drag since so long, and dropping tell like it was going out of style. Lynch and check. Flip Dopp or alien ? Well, we got 2 for the price of one, chaps. Not it ? Not a big loss for all i'm concerned.
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #710 on: November 30, 2010, 08:34:35 pm »

Hardly think it's a risk, Just basic human minds. Mafia is biased in town favor since it's way harder to keep lying for a long time. Theres always cracks in a story, and the longer the story hold the more they show. back day 1. You guys dont question enough his choice of Kamina to block. There were others ( many of them) that he could have blocked. He chose KaminaSquirtle, why?  The guy that should have been lynced day 1 if Shadowdump did not pull a massive KILL ME sign.  Zathras is experienced, he should know not to thrust a possible scum\noobtown with such an important thing. Again, i emphasise that he could have just blocked Jim. Jim got Pandar hanged, and more importantly hes the one that STARTED the investiagtion. I've never seen a mafia selling their own members, so Jim word as at least SOME credibility. That Kamina is riding the Zath train so hard just tells even more.

Also fun, no word from zath about kamina. No 'stop budying me' . no ' stop defending me'. He just goes on to respond on web, but noting else. Really Zath, you got no opinion on kamina after all the time that passed ? On his pre-emptive defending of himself ?( you were implicated in that one too, how weird). Since that world is so hard for you poor little wardens, should you not at least start working to earn it ?
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #711 on: November 30, 2010, 08:37:36 pm »

Hardly think it's a risk, Just basic human minds. Mafia is biased in town favor since it's way harder to keep lying for a long time. Theres always cracks in a story, and the longer the story hold the more they show. You guys dont question enough his choice of Kamina to block. There were others ( many of them) that he could have blocked. He chose KaminaSquirtle, why?  The guy that should have been lynced day 1 if Shadowdump did not pull a massive KILL ME sign.  Zathras is experienced, he should know not to thrust a possible scum\noobtown with such an important thing hell, he himself called Kamina noobtown. Again, i emphasise that he could have just blocked Jim. Jim got Pandar hanged, and more importantly hes the one that STARTED the investiagtion. I've never seen a mafia selling their own members, so Jim word as at least SOME credibility. That Kamina is riding the Zath train so hard just tells even more. Why do you guys are so close to each others?

Also fun, no word from zath about kamina. No 'stop budying me' . no ' stop defending me'. He just goes on to respond on web, but noting else. Really Zath, you got no opinion on kamina after all the time that passed ? On his pre-emptive defending of himself ?( you were implicated in that one too, how weird). Since that world is so hard for you poor little wardens, should you not at least start working to earn it ?

Reworked the text, should learn to proofread before posting.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #712 on: November 30, 2010, 08:55:55 pm »

I didn't get Pandarsenic lynched. I had nothing to do with that. Zathras revealed he blocked Pandarsenic, and Pandarsenic's lukewarm defense of himself sealed his fate.

I have no idea what made you think I got Pandarsenic lynched or that I started the investigation.
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #713 on: November 30, 2010, 09:10:38 pm »

I have  a distinct memory that you were the one to have  caught Pandar in a lie about his No Night Action, and that from that point it started until Pandar got lynched. Ill need to do a re-read, i guess
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - 2 Replacement Needed
« Reply #714 on: November 30, 2010, 09:22:23 pm »

[citation needed]

Not what i was searching, but i still like it. Only a bit more weight that zath is not what you guys want to believe.


also, checking back, pandar killed himself with the no night actions, supposedly caused by Zath psychic wardens. Thing is, Pandar described alien flavor and Zath just followed it like it was normal.
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Zathras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #715 on: November 30, 2010, 10:22:24 pm »

Like I said before: Zathras had no need to warn the victim of his roleblock about it. Doing so seems to only cover his own hide, as usually.
Completely disagree with you on this. He needed to PM someone who he would roleblock so that they could confirm that he did it (which was a good chunk of the point). It would have been helpful if he hadn't blocked the same person he PMed, but I don't think that was clear enough in my post yesterday. As it is, it works out. Zathras is an essentially confirmed Psychic Warden, with the only exception being the unlikely case of Exterminator+Operative KaminaSquirtle.

Zathras: This is what I actually meant /\

Yes, I misunderstood you. It does make more sense that way. But it worked out, so I'm fine with the results.


Quote from: JTF
This is what it boils down to: He thinks Zathras is scum, while I'm apparently town.
Explain how this makes any sense at all.
If Zathras bussed Pandarsenic. All your claim shows is that he's a Psychic Warden. I don't think it's likely, but it's entirely possible, particularly with it being Zathras and Pandarsenic.

While I see what you mean, there's an additional requirement: I would have had not only to bus Pandarsenic, but also to prevent a Dopp kill night one. Even if Pandar and I were sufficiently cunning to do the bussing/warding thing as a strategy, preventing the night kill would be a step too far, wouldn't it? We're talking about not just bussing a dopp, but saving a townie too. That'd be too expensive a gambit for the dopps regardless of results, yes?



Also, MBP: dude, you come in a week later, and fail to understand what has happened so far. A handful of comments below, but the short version is: you're nuts.

Possibilitys
The exterminator is Mish, did no kill due to absence ( all is good, Zath is not the exterminator)
Exterminator is zathras : There we got some choice.
Exterminator is not Zathras: Why would he not kill anybody? No good reason to refrain since all the suspicion was on Zath.  They are not blocked by wardens
They are blocked by guardians, which could have been the case. And they may have chosen not to kill precisely because all the suspicion was on me, thus increasing the WIFOM chances. These could have been particularly good strategies for Webadict the Exterminator, since he was already pushing for me, and the wine is stroooong with him. (see my previous post for details on that)


Quote from: MBP
He tried to kill someone but got blocked, unlikely, else the guardien implicated could have claimed (if he want to do it anonymously, i can transmit the message). I also have very good reason to believe no guardian was involved.
This is moronic. For a guardian, claiming should be the last thing on his mind; they would be an immediate target for both scum teams, and he can't protect himself. It's one of the most valuable roles for the town to have, and to remain hidden. Your volunteering for him to claim to you is VERY scummy.... why, it's almost like you want to know who the guardian is... no ulterior motives? Why should he, or we, believe you don't wish the guardian any harm, so they should claim to you? Also, what are your "very good reasons to believe no guardian was involved"? How about sharing those reasons with us? What do you have to hide?


Quote from: MBP
Again, my solution aint something hard, kamina as been a drag since so long, and dropping tell like it was going out of style. Lynch and check. Flip Dopp or alien ? Well, we got 2 for the price of one, chaps. Not it ? Not a big loss for all i'm concerned.

If we lynch Kamina and he flips Dopp, that doesn't mean anything about my alignment (or the other way around). He could be a dopp trying to ingratiate to town by being helpful, as has been said by others.


back day 1. You guys dont question enough his choice of Kamina to block. There were others ( many of them) that he could have blocked. He chose KaminaSquirtle, why?  [...] Jim got Pandar hanged, and more importantly hes the one that STARTED the investiagtion. I've never seen a mafia selling their own members, so Jim word as at least SOME credibility.

This shows you are either lying or not reading the game. First: it was day two, not day one. This is important, because Second: I got Pandar lynched. Not only that, I blocked him on night one, saving a townie's life, and then during the next day got him lynched. Jim (and Kamina!) spent almost the entire day two yelling "Zathras is an Alien!" at the top of their lungs; going as far as voting me instead of Pandarsenic until near the end of day when Toaster, Person, and others chimed in with the voice of reason: hang the dopp (duh). If you doubt this is the case, start rereading again starting here.

Go ahead and reread, and if you come back and haven't changed your mind, I'll have to consider moving my vote from Web to you, as you a) were scummy to begin with, what with the lurking and all; b) are being wilfully obtuse about interpreting the facts as happened; and c) have made three suggestions that are ridiculously bad for town: that a guardian should claim to you, that a warden should announce his block, and that people should violate rules by posting mod's PMs.

I was pretty sure you were scum before. I'm damned sure now. In fact, I'll go ahead and Vote MysteriousBluePuppet now, though if you show differently before the end of the day I may go back to Web... it's not like we have a shortage of scum. We'll see.

Also, please answer this question: what are your "very good reasons to believe no guardian was involved"?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #716 on: November 30, 2010, 10:30:42 pm »

Hey.

I've got an idea.

How about everybody stop using the lack of an Exterminator kill as evidence for their own pet theory about who it is? Because that's what everybody's doing. And it's all pretty much bullshit.
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Mysteriousbluepuppet

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #717 on: November 30, 2010, 10:43:10 pm »

Because i dont think theres more than 1 guardian , and i know one, and i know he did no such blocks ? Thus if there is not 2 guardians, extie failed to act.

And also, i'm not saying you are dopp, what i'm worried is exterminator. I dont think a exterminator would be against killing dopps. I also think that the no kill may well have been caused by alien techs. Ill have to go re-read those.
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Toaster

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #718 on: November 30, 2010, 11:29:46 pm »

Janus:
Argembarger said he wanted to be treated like everybody else when replaced in. There's no reason to give him slack if he doesn't want any.
I had for gotten that. I still think that Argembarger had the right idea and Toaster the wrong for the original point though. Even within the original first extension, the vote has already changed quite a bit. It wasn't something that would cause problems back then.

I still found it odd that he mentioned the tiebreaker vote, then completely ignored the two people tied.  I don't think it was terribly scummy- probably more lazy than anything.  His last post was definitely scummier, though.

MBP:  Your logic is unsound tonight.  You should probably fact-check your posts before you post them.

Also, the only ways you could know this if you were one, detective-found one, or were scum with one.  Don't claim if it's the first two.

Meph:  Does a Guardian-saved person know that a Guardian saved them?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal Mafia - Round 17 - Day 3 - Replacement found
« Reply #719 on: November 30, 2010, 11:32:36 pm »

Yes, a person protected by a guard style role will generally know that they were protected. They won't know who protected them, usually, but it depends on the type of guard.
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