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[webadict]

Okay guys. Sorry for being late. I was at school when last I posted, so this time, I'll get right down to business.

Let's start with who's alive and what we're looking for:

11 Alive:
# Zathras
# JanusTwoface
# Toaster
# Jim Groovester
# webadict
# Ottofar
# Mysteriousbluepuppet
# Argembarger
# KaminaSquirtle
# Leafsnail
# Mish

Dead:
# SHAD0Wdump - Human Telepath
# Org - Human Medium
# Criptfeind - Human Medium
# Mr.Person - Human Agent

# Pandarsenic - Tough Doppelganger

There's 3 Dopps and at least one anti-Town alien. That's 4+/11, meaning we have to lynch scum today. If we mislynch, this leads to 3 town deaths, with the possibility of a Scientist kill, leaving us with 4+/7-8.

Our top priority is lynching the Exterminator. Eliminating him eliminates one night kill from each Night, with the possibility of a block or protect stopping the Doppelgangers.

Now, why didn't the Exterminator kill last Night? Exterminators are block-proof, so it was a protect that stopped him. And not simply a Guard, but a full-fledged Guardian, or the Alien never attacked...

But, I'll start on an entirely different topic. Mr.Person. I think I can show that he inspected me on the first Night. I realize it's not provable without a Medium, but I'm almost certain he inspected me.

One, he was after me the first Day. He always seems to have some sort of problem with me or I with him. However, at the start of the next Day, he wasn't pushing me anymore. Looking at his first post shows that he finds me suspicious, but less so than usually and goes on to comment about my overall play style.

Mr.Person, why were you and Zathras trying to get webadict lynched for stupid meta shit yesterday? And why were you focusing your lurker hunting efforts on webadict when there's a rogue's gallery of abhorrent lurkers this game who had even less excuse than webadict?

It was very out of character for Webadict to be lurking. Sure, he had an excuse, but the posts he did make were very passive and weak. Now you can make all the excuses you want, but the only reason I'm going to unvote for that is if he started acting different. Which he has, by the way, so no more Webadict vote for me. At least for now. Actually, ugh, I hate playing with Webadict. It's like trying to read a foreign language or solve a crazy hard logic problem. You know it's possible, but you just can't figure how.

I don't like how you've locked on to me and Janus.  It's like an excuse to not contribute to the rest of the game.

I will keep voting scum until they die.  Simple as that.

So you're absolutely, 100% sure that you have scum? Because otherwise you're tunneling something hard here and it's scummy.

Really now, tunneling became scummy? When did that happen? Last I checked, tunneling was a towny action to lynch a player he/she is sure is scum, or if you're ToonyMan, to put pressure on that player so you can figure out that player's alignment.

But alright, tell me this, JanusTwoface. If you were really, really sure that SHAD0Wdump is scum, why wouldn't you tunnel him until he dies?

Mr.Person: If you were a Military Scientist, which tech would you pick and why?

Assassin drone. I'd tell myself I'd wait until lylo and piss off the whole town by using it to replace our lylo lynch, but I'd chicken out and use it the night before if it's mylo.

If you wanted to know who I'd kill, probably Webadict. Not only do I have an inkling he's scum, I'd never be able to get him lynched. At least that's what I'd do now. Not very shocking since I need to get some different suspicions now.

He mentions needing to grab new suspicions, calling me out of character, but overall DROPPING THE ATTACK. I do not contend that this is proof of my being Town. But, it goes a long way towards refuting Zathras's argument against me.

Now, jumping to an overlook of today.

I see nothing against it in the rules, so here is the full conversation:

Hey Kamina,  I plan to block you tonight, so you can confirm tomorrow that I am a warden as claimed (y'know, chains and all that). I don't want to do it to JTF, as I think he may be scum, or Jim as it would be too obvious.

If you have a power role that would be severely impacted by a block tonight, or if you are a PWV or have sentry guns, please let me know and I'll choose a different target.

PS: Please keep this to yourself until tomorrow. I would prefer people don't know who I will target until after the fact.

Ok, I'm not that powerful of a role anyway, so I'll go along with this.  No funny business though.  If you nk me and someone isn't blocked, then you will get lynched.
So long as you're really warden, you have nothing to fear.

Right, so we'll do this then. Also, for the record, I just remembered that it wouldn't matter if you were a PWV, since the psychic block happens remotely, so that's OK in any case. Again, please keep this to yourself until the morning.

Cheers,
~z

Like I said before: Zathras had no need to warn the victim of his roleblock about it. Doing so seems to only cover his own hide, as usually.

Zathras has displayed numerous self-preservation symptoms. He has purposefully delayed release of information so that he would not be a target (naturally making an enemy or suspicious person out of himself). He has willfully gone after only one person, with ennui towards all other lynches. And he has placed his own well-being above stopping scum.

He didn't tell anyone he was a Roleblocker so that he wouldn't be killed by the Doppelgangers.

No, I was unsure about claiming, since if I could get him lynched without claiming, I wouldn't have to paint me as a target for the scum to kill. So I voted him and badgered him to answer questions; when he didn't, and it was clear I wouldn't have the time to press him until he cracked, I decided to claim the block. It was still pretty damned early in the day, though, wasn't it? I was in my second or third post of the day.

He's putting his own life above the survival and winning of the Town. Also, he seems blissfully ignorant that the scum would clearly know that someone gunning for them would know who blocked them. You're not trying to help the Town. But, why? What has you so wound up that you must go after lurkers and safe your own skin?

How about you being an Operative or Exterminator? It only seems natural as you don't want the Doppelgangers killing you, but you DO want people to think you're town. Almost at the expense of Town resources. Now, here's what some people have missed. You had the means to lynch a scum, and you delayed in hopes that you wouldn't be a target of the dopps.

Now, I suppose that's less than acceptable for a Town, but then why did you ask Kamina to lower any guards? You were a roleblocker, no? Did you not think, "I can roleblock people and things that kill"? I think that would've been my first thought, with a quick question to Meph, who would state that you simply don't leave your house.

Ah, but... You can't leave your house, can you? What if a Reporter tracked you going to someone's house last Night? What if you took a Stun Orb with you as your Tech? I suppose nobody else has thoroughly inspected the rules? Stun Orbs can have two-uses for Medium Tech. Now, it seems like this is all making sense, right? You're the Exterminator, right? You don't have a Shield or anything to protect you, so you stayed at home, in case some Reporter wanted to see you leave, breaking into my house and killing me. Is that it?

It's funny because you learned that Psychic Wardens don't leave their house last Night. You think that you would have read your Night PM, where it states you sit at home and block someone. For someone who's being rather picky about everything I do, you've made more than enough mistakes to make you being an Exterminator more than likely.

And now that I'm done piecing things together, I'll move on.

You're up, Zathras. Let's hear what you did last night, because your head's on the chopping block unless you have a plausible explanation for why you decided to not follow the easy path to confirmation that was laid out for you or a plausible explanation of the night's events.

I'm curious as to how you jumped to conclusions so fast.  Perhaps you have some kind of communication channel with obvscum JanusTwoFace, the other person who was suggested to be blocked?

Wouldn't this also imply that YOU know JanusTwoface hasn't been blocked, Leafsnail? In fact, why go after JanusTwoface at all? It'd make more sense to vote Jim Groovester, the one who's making accusations about Zathras not following the plan.

Webadict: I'm curious on your views of what's going on.  Three questions in particular: 
- What do you think of Leafsnail?
- Why do you think there were two kills N1 and one kill N2?
- In your experience with Jim Groovester, what's the craziest gambit you've seen him try?

Leafsnail is acting odd. I suppose up until now I haven't been giving this game as much attention as it deserves, but he seems to be doing the same thing as Zathras. He's choosing one target and tunneling. I'll take a better look at him after this, as I'm currently responding in a catch-up mode sort of fashion.
For the second question, I believe Zathras was afraid to go out. He thought he was being watched or something, so he simply didn't leave last Night, in order to keep up the Warden facade. The only other possibility is a Guardian.
And third, Jim Groovester played out being a Military Scientist as a Body Double as a Dopp. Soo... that's about it.

The rules do not specify whether or not the Exterminator is required to kill every night. Did the Exterminator just take a no-kill night? If so, how often can that happen?

Unless, the Exterminator DID get blocked, I suppose.

Hmm...

He could have.  But I see no reason for him to have done so.

I think he was blocked.  Anyone other than Zathras who blocked last night better claim.

And before anyone suggests I'm the exterminator because I was blocked, you better explain why I was so eager to post that PM, and why I went along with Zathras's plan, among other things.

One, Exterminators can't be blocked. Two, don't overexplain. Three, calm down. Four, don't tell people to claim.

Hmm.  Zath's clearly not a dopp, and I tend to buy his warden claim.  I have trouble seeing a Kamina/Zath exty-op combo, so I'll have to ponder Kamina's case.  In the mean time...

Ottofar:

Well.
I guess Pandar might be a dopp. Not too sure.
Zathras, as stated, is probably an alien.
I'm gonna go sleep.

This post demands explanation.
While you're explaining it, please tell me if this explanation makes sense to you:  You're an Alien Survivor who used Pandar's obvscumminess as an opportunity to come out to the scum team so you can help them win at LYLO.

Mish hasn't posted since the 19th, and probably needs to be replaced.

MBP has no such excuse.  You're willfully ignoring this thread since you were just on the forum.  Get in here or die.

This continues why I believe you to be a Doppelganger. It's these subtle phrases you throw in. It unnerves me. Something about you just reeks of scum.

I believe you didn't say anything about me, either, while you were pointing out people that weren't here. Why is this?

And now we can come back to Zathras again:

Thank you Kamina for posting that; I'm glad we can move on.

Webadict:

You are still at the top of my list. Your game has done nothing to help town; your posts have been devoid of content or hunting, except for attacking the one person who was attacking you; your attitude yesterday was suspicious; and your activity minimal, posting only often enough to not be accused of lurking, and yet doing next to nothing in those posts. I am pretty sure you are scum.


Janus & Jim:

I don't buy that either of you is town. Jim, your eagerness to jump on my case as the day started is scummy, and revealed suspicious knowledge: how did you know I didn't block Janus? Yes, I read your explanation, and I don't buy it. It seems you have other means of communication, and we know what that means.

Janus, your killing of Org was suspicious, as I said, plus your request to be blocked; your "missing" the point of Jim's first message of the day adds to this. I am not sure you are scum, but you are high on my list of possibilities.

More substance on both of these will come later in the game day, I'm busy now.


Mish & MBP:

MOD: I strongly request a forced replace or modkill for these two. People lurking for a couple of days is a challenge that the town must spot and stop. People not posting in a fucking week is something the Mod should remedy.

But we can make it easier for you: replacements are hard to come by, and someone replacing MBP would face 600 posts and the town's animosity; since he's posting elsewhere, his lurking is the activity of scum, and should just hang for it instead of going through the replacement pains. I will support a lynch of MysteriousBluePuppet if people decide to go for it. I think Web is scummier, but MBP's absence hurts the game more. Hanging either of these scumbags is OK with me.

Even if he comes back now, it is too late for him. I would go as far as to suggest people here who host their own games to remember his attitude this game and prevent him from joining games in the future. If only we had some sort of a thread to help mods keep track of people's attendance... but we don't seem to want that either.

Of course you'll go after me again. When haven't you? I really don't have time for your crap. I can tell you're not committed to your arguments, because you even go on to say that I should be lynched, but you'll gladly lynch someone else. Is there anything else you'd like to say over and over again about me? Perhaps that I'm scum? I think maybe it'll allow you to get away with keeping yourself out of harm's way.

But, then again, your evidence has got me so flustered that I don't know what to do with myself.

Meph:  Requesting prod on Webadict and Ottofar as well- neither have posted since day start.

Whoa, kid. Don't you celebrate Thanksgiving?

Janus, your killing of Org was suspicious, as I said, plus your request to be blocked; your "missing" the point of Jim's first message of the day adds to this. I am not sure you are scum, but you are high on my list of possibilities.

I didn't miss the point of his first post of the day, I missed the first post of the page here. It wasn't until later that he actually explained that he was assuming that you had gone off on your own because there was no Exterminator kill. So really you're going after me for the Org thing and ... what else? Nothing really.

Yeah... I don't have much more than that on you, that's why I'm not voting you. You seem scummy to me, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I'll be watching you closely, though.

I still don't get the bit why you wouldn't actually want to block me if you thought I was scum. It's not like you have a physical role that would set off a PWV (if I were lying, but that would mean someone else killed Org and hasn't claimed it...).

As my note to Kamina made embarrassingly clear, the non-physicality of the thing was not immediately obvious to me until I reread my role PM in preparation of sending the night action. This is my first paranormal, so it being a remote action was not clear on my mind. Yes, I was worried you were setting me up to be killed by sentry guns or somesuch, but this was a baseless worry.

I will support a lynch of MysteriousBluePuppet if people decide to go for it. I think Web is scummier, but MBP's absence hurts the game more. Hanging either of these scumbags is OK with me.

If you want him lynched, vote for him. Hanging back until you see a consensus is scummy, even in a case like this.

They should both be hanged, but for different reasons. Web is the scummiest, so I'm voting him as that's how one plays the game -- lynch the scummiest. MBP hanging, on the other hand, is more of a meta-game argument: his absence hurts the game, and his replacement would give a scummy player an unwarranted clean slate; the game would proceed better if he hangs. He is certainly scummy enough to deserve to hang. But I only have one vote, so I'm telling people that if we wish to pursue a meta-gaming lynch for the benefit of all players, I'll support it. It's better than having two inactive players murking the waters; it interferes with all our abilities to successfully scumhunt or narrow possibilities down. The game would be better with him gone, so if I can help make it so, I will.

Either that or you really think that you have the entire Dopp team + the Exterminator nailed down (pro tip: in any game, if you think this you're either scum or wrong 95% of the time)

I certainly don't think I have all the scum nailed down. In fact, I went as far as saying "I'm not sure you're scum", didn't I? Saying that I did, in the face of that statement in the post you were replying to, seems like a wilful misreading and misrepresentation of the statement, doesn't it? Also known as a "lie"...

Even if he comes back now, it is too late for him. I would go as far as to suggest people here who host their own games to remember his attitude this game and prevent him from joining games in the future. If only we had some sort of a thread to help mods keep track of people's attendance... but we don't seem to want that either.

Not really going to help this game... But it's something to consider.

It is, isn't it? Offtopic question: why did you never submit Sorcerer's I results to the new attendance tracking thread?

When you say things like this:

No, I'll decide what to do later, and we'll see where that leaves us tomorrow, but I'll only dance this dance once. The purpose of the power is not to dick about with it where it does no good, it's to prevent kills as it did last night. If you guys wish to lynch me for it, then go ahead, we'll discuss that when the time comes.

I assume you are not going to follow along with the plan.

But no, you are right. The only plausible explanation for why I came out voting for you today is because I read about it in scumchat, instead of the astronomically improbable explanation that when you defiantly stated you were not going to follow the plan I believed you.

To put it bluntly, Zathras, why are you being retarded? You don't have to believe what I say, but you do need to think it through. Why is it so improbable that I believed you when you were being a defiant fucker about being confirmed?

Nevermind, I see now that you were indeed too retarded to read my post in context, and merely went mad with rage at the thought that people weren't submitting to your will and following your commands. It wasn't scumchat, it was brain damage.

To make it clear for you: I don't take orders from you, boy. I will play how I choose, and your barking like a mad chihuahua has no bearing on my decision making process. I decided it was a good idea to waste my action one night if it would help assuage doubts, but once is enough. The blocking will be henceforth used how I decide is best, with the intent of preventing another kill and nailing more scum. Suggestions are welcome; orders can be shoved up the issuer's ass.

I think it laughable that people were actually thinking following Pandar's advice was good for town. Yeah, no ulterior motives there....


Webadict: please grace us with your presence. Questions for you: what is your read of JTF, Toaster and Arembarger? Would you support a lynch of MBP? Do you buy my warden claim now? Who do you think performed the Dopp kill last night? Do you have speculations on the lack of an exterminator kill? Who are the scummiest on your list at the moment? What have you done in favour of town in the entire game?

Another 'blah blah blah vote wuba' post from Zathras. Let's see his questions:
JanusTwoface? Probably Town.
Toaster? Scum.
Argembarger? Probably Town.
Lynch MBP? When you're the Exterminator? I laugh. I like how you phrase the next question too. "Do you buy my warden claim?" Seriously? What is this? Hey, Zathras, do you buy that I'm King now? Can you at least phrase it in the way so you're trying not to look like scum?
I don't know who performed the Dopp kill last Night. That sounds borderline rolefishing. Besides, if I had role information, I wouldn't be a pansy and try and cover it up.
Speculations on no Exterminator kill: You no killed. Possible Guardian. Also - and I only just thought of this one - Mish not being here.
Scummiest: Toaster, you, Leafsnail, Ottofar, Mish.
In favor of the town? Well, being Town usually is pro-Town in general... but I can't say that there's all too much I've done for the town. I'd say I was far too busy so far. But, how does this make me scum in your eyes? I'd say if you really wanted to make a case against me, you would've. Instead, you're simply repeating "Web is scum," and that's it. You don't want people to lynch me, but you don't want to seem inactive. It's a win-win for you, right?

Kamina:  Your line of attack is too heavy in WIFOM for my tastes.  The blanket answer to "Why would I do this as scum" is "So you could say you wouldn't do that as scum."  You wouldn't want to force a mislynch on Zath as that would almost certainly turn in to a lynch of you the next day.  You could help cement his claim today (giving you town cred) and then kill him off tonight.

Argembarger:  The traditional uses of a scum assassin bot is to use it right at LYLO to turn it into a scum win- the town usually uses it early before they get killed.  It's not a vindication of his alignment, but it does knock him down on the suspicion list a bit, at least.

For someone concerned about WIFOM, you pack it into this post.

The Assassin Bot is no longer as powerful as it was. It isn't a lylo breaker anymore. It is instead an extra kill now, because it's safer to use before you die. Why you're trying to protect Janus is odd, especially considering he can protect himself. You're implying he's town because scum would save it, which is WIFOM.

one question for Zathras: If you wanted to stop scums, why did you bother to tell Kamina that you were blocking him? That's stupid! That means if Kamina is scum, you've turned a 33% chance of blocking scum into 0%. Are you really trying to block scum, or just cover your own hide?

Now it seems you're not even paying attention. This is what I said in the post to which you reply:

I decided it was a good idea to waste my action one night if it would help assuage doubts, but once is enough. The blocking will be henceforth used how I decide is best, with the intent of preventing another kill and nailing more scum.

I know you are smart enough to know better, and engaged enough to remember the whole "is he or isn't he, should he be confirmed" conversation yesterday, so I have no choice but to see this as a wilful misreading of the situation, hoping to steer the conversation away from you. Well, at least you are back. Please don't forget to answer my multiple questions.

People, what are your views on Web as scum now? Why is he getting a free pass? Once again, he has posted, but done nothing at all to hunt or to favour town, except for attacking those who were attacking him. So far it has only been me and Mr. Person... funny how he turned out dead this morning.

Willful misreading? YOU TOLD HIM YOU WERE BLOCKING HIM AND ASKED HIM TO LOWER ANYTHING PROTECTING HIM! If that isn't self-preservation, I don't know what is. You're obviously caring that people think you're a Psychic Warden, but you're not okay with working with the Town. You're obviously trying to keep yourself alive or you wouldn't've tried to hide your role when you had almost PROVEN PANDAR SCUM or asked someone if it's okay to block them, in case they have something that kills you.

I don't know if you suddenly dropped a couple thousand IQ since the last time you played mafia, but you seem to have some rather bizarre ideas of what's acceptable for a Town to do. Is hiding information that could lynch a scum a good idea? If it keeps you alive! Screw the team, go for the solo win? Screw off. If you're Town, you should be banned from games. You think you're some sort of Mafia King, but what you do harms the Town more than it helps it. So suck a crate full of lemons.

Since when have I been given a free pass? WHAT FREE PASS? Why would I kill Mr.Person? HE STOPPED GOING AFTER ME AT THE BEGINNING OF DAY 2! If anything, his death hurts me... well, it would have more if he wasn't an Agent. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR EVIDENCE?! There's no quotes, and it's certainly a misrepresentation of facts right there. I only thought of the opposite when Mr.Person died. Using Mr.Person makes your point basically MOOT! If he was suspicious of me, then who would he have inspected, you nimrod? See, unlike you, I'm pretty sure Mr.Person would've said, "Webadict is scum!" in the first post.

Granted, I'm assuming a lot of things. But, I'm just showing how bad your evidence is. By the way, if you end up dead tonight, I'm scum. Ooooooh!

Go cry in the corner.

Now, I have to decide whether or not to lynch Mish. If he turns out to be the Exterminator, then you're just really bad at the game, wasting the Town's resources going after me, keeping yourself alive, and warning people that you're blocking them.

And, Extension.

[Jim Groovester]

Unless Mish is replaced before the Day's end (not looking too likely), then I don't think him killing anybody in the night if he's the Exterminator is going to be a problem.

[webadict]

Unless Mish is replaced before the Day's end (not looking too likely), then I don't think him killing anybody in the night if he's the Exterminator is going to be a problem.

... That's true, but if he is the Exterminator, then we'll need to find out eventually.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Kamina:  Your line of attack is too heavy in WIFOM for my tastes.  The blanket answer to "Why would I do this as scum" is "So you could say you wouldn't do that as scum."  You wouldn't want to force a mislynch on Zath as that would almost certainly turn in to a lynch of you the next day.  You could help cement his claim today (giving you town cred) and then kill him off tonight.

I'll admit my post was overly reactionary.  What my point was is that my being scum would have some effect on the chances of Zathras being scum, yet Leafsnail didn't find this worth mentioning.  It's a weaker argument than I initially thought, but I don't think it's completely useless.
I'm really on the fence about Leafsnail.  He doesn't seem kinda scum or kinda town to me, he seems really strongly one or the other, I just can't seem to decide.  I can't understand some of his actions as him being a townie, and I can't understand others as him being scum.  He's just a huge puzzle, so I keep swinging from him being scum to him being town.

You're scum, Leafsnail.  This slip shall be your end.

This entire thing is quite funny, actually.

Your main problem seems to be that you think I ignored your question.  Ok, fair enough - you should've voted me to get an answer (maybe calling me scum in the process).  But you don't.  In fact, you don't vote me until it's absolutely clear I think you're scum.  THEN you get annoyed about me missing it, THEN you make a complete U-turn on everything and start voting me again.

In other words, this is one of the most blatant OMGUSs you can possibly do.  Somehow, I think that if I said "No, I don't think you're scum" you wouldn't have this reaction.

No, I wouldn't have voted you for that answer, since it wouldn't have had serious ramifications upon the game.

And I think it's your logic that needs to be checked here.
Do you seriously think I made that up for the sole reason of having the excuse to vote you for the sole reason of you voting me?  How is an OMGUS even a scumtell anyway?  What kind of idiot scum decides it would be in their best interests to vote someone because that someone voted them?
Seriously, just think about it...

Woah, Webadict post.

...U MAD.
Would you care to explain why I would lie about Zathras protecting if I wasn't scum with him?  If he's an exterminator aligned alien, that means I am too.  Yet you don't consider me scum.
This makes no sense.  I'm tempted to call scum right here.  You, after telling me not to be jittery, post this Mr Person inspecting you shit.
I don't like it.  You're also exhibiting selective scumhunting, hunting almost exclusively for the exterminator.

Now, I have to decide whether or not to lynch Mish.

...you get to decide who gets lynched?  No.
You're tunneling Zathras like crazy, while the only thing you mention about me is advice.  HE RBED ME LAST NIGHT.  I AM NOT LYING.  WHY DID I GET WARDEN FLAVOR IF HE'S EXTERMINATOR?
CALL US BOTH SCUM, BUT CERTAINLY NOT JUST HIM.  THAT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.
Seriously, Webadict, you're not helping town at all.
I'm starting to agree with Zathras.  You've focused on him only, yet I know he's confirmed Physic Warden, ie NOT THE EXTERMINATOR.
In fact, screw you.
Unvote, vote webadict.

Unless Mish is replaced before the Day's end (not looking too likely), then I don't think him killing anybody in the night if he's the Exterminator is going to be a problem.

This all you have to day on one of the scummiest posts of the game?

However, why has wuba ignored MBP?  Look.  He just deflected a question on him.

Lynch MBP? When you're the Exterminator? I laugh. I like how you phrase the next question too. "Do you buy my warden claim?" Seriously? What is this? Hey, Zathras, do you buy that I'm King now? Can you at least phrase it in the way so you're trying not to look like scum?

While i'm on the subject, find it weird that everyone forgot about all the day 1 crap and now just take his word like solid gold

Now stop right here.  My words have not been taking like 'solid gold'.  Just look at Leafsnail, he's been tunneling me ALL GAME.  Toaster doesn't like me.  I don't think anyone fully trusts me.

if you arent scum, you can just post the pm and all is good.

Seriously?  You are acting on a Jetsuirrel/Ottofar level here.  You are insane.

I'm not entirely convinced on your Psychic Warden tell. i dont remeber seeing the mod post about your Kamina block ( if i just missed it then by all means point the page).

...

Webadict

Stays pretty much himself, i have no idea what he or may not be.

Funny, you two don't like talking about each other, do you?

if Kamina flip town, we wont have killed a serviceable warden

Or we could, you know, actually lynch someone other than Zathras or I.

I'm sorry, but you're just avoiding being useful.  All you've done is point out some either old or obvious scumtells on me.  Nothing else.

Unless Mish is replaced before the Day's end (not looking too likely), then I don't think him killing anybody in the night if he's the Exterminator is going to be a problem.

... That's true, but if he is the Exterminator, then we'll need to find out eventually.

Wait, wait, wait, before I say something stupid here, what are you suggesting here?  That we lynch him anyway?

[Zathras]

Yeah! This is more like the webadict we've come to expect and love! I do wish you snipped your quotes more, though.

But, I'll start on an entirely different topic. Mr.Person. I think I can show that he inspected me on the first Night. I realize it's not provable without a Medium, but I'm almost certain he inspected me.

One, he was after me the first Day. He always seems to have some sort of problem with me or I with him. However, at the start of the next Day, he wasn't pushing me anymore. Looking at his first post shows that he finds me suspicious, but less so than usually and goes on to comment about my overall play style.

It was very out of character for Webadict to be lurking. Sure, he had an excuse, but the posts he did make were very passive and weak. Now you can make all the excuses you want, but the only reason I'm going to unvote for that is if he started acting different. Which he has, by the way, so no more Webadict vote for me. At least for now. Actually, ugh, I hate playing with Webadict. It's like trying to read a foreign language or solve a crazy hard logic problem. You know it's possible, but you just can't figure how.

He mentions needing to grab new suspicions, calling me out of character, but overall DROPPING THE ATTACK. I do not contend that this is proof of my being Town. But, it goes a long way towards refuting Zathras's argument against me.

Hmmm... Yes, I grant that he dropped his attack on day two. Whether this means he inspected you or what that means for your alignment is a different question, however.

Like I said before: Zathras had no need to warn the victim of his roleblock about it. Doing so seems to only cover his own hide, as usually.

The purpose for last night's block was to have independent confirmation of warden-style flavour. I followed JTF's advice here:

Revealing it in the thread probably gives the dopps too much information, but this is an open PM game.  At the very least, let someone (who you trust (yes, I realize this is Mafia, but there has to be someone)) know before the day ends who you're going to block via PM. They don't even have to reveal anything until tomorrow. Just let them know now, so we have a timestamped PM quote to verify it (yes, you can fake them but it will help)

I chose Kamina as a) he had been one of the most vocal "lynch Zath the alien!" dudes; b) going for JTF or Jim would have been too obvious; and c) I was worried about being set up for a PWV/sentrygun kill or giving a plasma bomb a tempting target (baseless, since warding is a remote thing, but I missed that at the time). He has confirmed that the flavour was a warden's; for you to insist I'm an alien, he'd have to be my willing co-conspirator, which I think is pretty far fetched (or go ahead and re-read day two discussion; it was painful).

Zathras has displayed numerous self-preservation symptoms. He has purposefully delayed release of information so that he would not be a target (naturally making an enemy or suspicious person out of himself). He has willfully gone after only one person, with ennui towards all other lynches. And he has placed his own well-being above stopping scum. He didn't tell anyone he was a Roleblocker so that he wouldn't be killed by the Doppelgangers.

No. Again, I voted Pandar on my first post of the day, and claimed the block on the second (barring a minor correction in between). It left ample time for discussion, and it worked, so bugger off. As far as going after others, I've indicated other viable targets for my vote, but none has been more prevalent than you; this being your first honest effort to participate in the game was a large part of it.

Also, he seems blissfully ignorant that the scum would clearly know that someone gunning for them would know who blocked them. You're not trying to help the Town. But, why? What has you so wound up that you must go after lurkers and safe your own skin?

I'm not helping the town?! I prevented a kill and lynched a tough dopp! How have you helped the town? Other than the grievous error of outing Pandar in my second post instead of the first, how am I overly protective of my own skin?

Ah, but... You can't leave your house, can you? What if a Reporter tracked you going to someone's house last Night? What if you took a Stun Orb with you as your Tech? I suppose nobody else has thoroughly inspected the rules? Stun Orbs can have two-uses for Medium Tech. Now, it seems like this is all making sense, right? You're the Exterminator, right? You don't have a Shield or anything to protect you, so you stayed at home, in case some Reporter wanted to see you leave, breaking into my house and killing me. Is that it?

Yeah, that must be it. That what-if on top of what-if is meaningless WIFOM, it would still require Kamina to lie on my behalf, and, if I were the exterminator, making ridiculously bad tech choices and choosing not to kill.... Far-fetched doesn't begin to describe it.

And now that I'm done piecing things together, I'll move on.

I don't think you are honest in your analysis. I think you are still lashing out at those who lash at you, lying through your teeth and knowingly misrepresenting facts in the process. Your Person point was the only good point in your defence you've made today; although it is interesting, I'll think about it for a bit before I decide whether to unvote you or not.

[Jim Groovester]

...U MAD.
Would you care to explain why I would lie about Zathras protecting if I wasn't scum with him?  If he's an exterminator aligned alien, that means I am too.  Yet you don't consider me scum.

Why is this an issue to you? You seem pretty damn insecure about anyone who dares besmirch the untarnished name of your dear Zathras. If you want to tie his fate and yours together, you'll find more than enough people willing to lynch you both for it.

Hell, I'm really damn tempted to. Every piece of logic in my mind is saying that you both being scum doesn't make sense, but my gut... my gut wants to see how you'll flip. And I listen to my gut.

Wait, wait, wait, before I say something stupid here,

Whoops, too late.

Unless Mish is replaced before the Day's end (not looking too likely), then I don't think him killing anybody in the night if he's the Exterminator is going to be a problem.

This all you have to day on one of the scummiest posts of the game?

I'm thinking it over. The only thing that occurred to me is that webadict saying Mr.Person inspected him is completely and totally unverifiable. Mr.Person could have dropped his attack for any number of reasons, so it would be silly to infer an inspection and a town result on webadict because of it. It very well could have been because of an inspect, but we're better served to judge webadict town or scum by how he plays than by what he says Mr.Person may have done.

Everything else is an attack on Zathras and his argument, and a bit about other suspicions.

Meh, I don't know what to think. I'm thinking it over.

[KaminaSquirtle]

This is what it boils down to: He thinks Zathras is scum, while I'm apparently town.
Explain how this makes any sense at all.
The issue here isn't him attacking Zathras, it's him making an effort to attack him while not considering pretty much the largest obstacle in this case.
Also: Why wouldn't I defend a (almost confirmed) townie (confirmed psychic warden anyway)?  Webadict said himself that we need to lynch scum today, yet didn't confront the largest problem in his case.
Don't like it.

Hell, I'm really damn tempted to. Every piece of logic in my mind is saying that you both being scum doesn't make sense, but my gut... my gut wants to see how you'll flip. And I listen to my gut.

So do you trust logic, or your gut?  Especially, if it is, as Webadict claims, LYLO.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Actually Kamina, my goal is to see the people i think are scum hanged. Right now, i don't buy Zathras claim. Really, you could be both aliens, or both dopps for all i know. I won't just stop feeling it by your only word. Really, if you were a townie (fat chance there, id say) would you not be irked if someone tested a claim with someone HE chose ? Think about it that way. no exterminator kill last night. Meaning he got blocked (seen nobody having that power for now, since mindshield would be innefective) or he just prefered not killing anybody. Really, the easiest out is to use your scunmfriend help and stage a fakclaim with the pms.  I would not argue if i had the mod post in front of me with the date and hour, but all i got is your word.Sorry, but that is not flying with me.  Hell, looking back at you guy interacting it's almost sickening. Zathras being all stern and fatherly when everyone was asking for your head, a real class act.

For the record, i dont think its LYLO yet, the exterminator has to kill some mafia eventually, we may have a guardien or war vet around to give town an edge. Still, need more scum to die soon or it's gonna go south.

Get those mods post, show me the flavor. Else get that rope ready.

[KaminaSquirtle]

POSTING FLAVOR TEXT IS AGAINST THE RULES!
HOW MANY TIMES MUST THIS BE POINTED OUT?!
THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME IS THAT YOU ONLY HAVE MY WORD!
Like I said, bad as/worse than Ottofar/Jetsquirrel.
At least they know the rules.

[webadict]

Kamina: Wrong. You weren't listening to the post. I said that Stun Orbs can be turned into a two-use Stun Orb. That means you could easily be a normal townsperson. In fact, I have no idea why you're freaking out, because I explicitly stated all of this.

Woah, Webadict post.

...U MAD.
Would you care to explain why I would lie about Zathras protecting if I wasn't scum with him?  If he's an exterminator aligned alien, that means I am too.  Yet you don't consider me scum.
This makes no sense.  I'm tempted to call scum right here.  You, after telling me not to be jittery, post this Mr Person inspecting you shit.
I don't like it.  You're also exhibiting selective scumhunting, hunting almost exclusively for the exterminator.

Would you care to point out where I said you were lying? Seems like a Freudian slip if anything. Please, point it out. If you WANT to have a scumteam with him, then by all means, go. I have never seen someone freak out faster about me attacking someone else.

Now, hunting for the Exterminator is slightly scummy, yes, but if I can find the Exterminator, he needs to be lynched first. The chance of him killing a Townie is higher than him killing a Doppelganger. However, I have listed a few people who I suspect are dopps (Toaster, Leafsnail, Ottofar), but I would rather kill the Exterminator first. The math and logic are sound.

Now, I have to decide whether or not to lynch Mish.

...you get to decide who gets lynched?  No.

Because if Mish is the Exterminator, Zathras would likely be Town, plus the entire situation makes sense. It seems you're freaking out over nothing.

You're tunneling Zathras like crazy, while the only thing you mention about me is advice.  HE RBED ME LAST NIGHT.  I AM NOT LYING.  WHY DID I GET WARDEN FLAVOR IF HE'S EXTERMINATOR?

... Okay...

CALL US BOTH SCUM, BUT CERTAINLY NOT JUST HIM.  THAT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.
Seriously, Webadict, you're not helping town at all.
I'm starting to agree with Zathras.  You've focused on him only, yet I know he's confirmed Physic Warden, ie NOT THE EXTERMINATOR.

... Right...

In fact, screw you.
Unvote, vote webadict.

... Uh huh...

Unless Mish is replaced before the Day's end (not looking too likely), then I don't think him killing anybody in the night if he's the Exterminator is going to be a problem.

This all you have to day on one of the scummiest posts of the game?

However, why has wuba ignored MBP?  Look.  He just deflected a question on him.

Lynch MBP? When you're the Exterminator? I laugh. I like how you phrase the next question too. "Do you buy my warden claim?" Seriously? What is this? Hey, Zathras, do you buy that I'm King now? Can you at least phrase it in the way so you're trying not to look like scum?

Um, how about don't lynch MBP? Does that answer the question better, or would you rather take everything out of context?

While i'm on the subject, find it weird that everyone forgot about all the day 1 crap and now just take his word like solid gold

Now stop right here.  My words have not been taking like 'solid gold'.  Just look at Leafsnail, he's been tunneling me ALL GAME.  Toaster doesn't like me.  I don't think anyone fully trusts me.

if you arent scum, you can just post the pm and all is good.

Seriously?  You are acting on a Jetsuirrel/Ottofar level here.  You are insane.

I'm not entirely convinced on your Psychic Warden tell. i dont remeber seeing the mod post about your Kamina block ( if i just missed it then by all means point the page).

...

Webadict

Stays pretty much himself, i have no idea what he or may not be.

Funny, you two don't like talking about each other, do you?

... Sure...

if Kamina flip town, we wont have killed a serviceable warden

Or we could, you know, actually lynch someone other than Zathras or I.

I'm sorry, but you're just avoiding being useful.  All you've done is point out some either old or obvious scumtells on me.  Nothing else.

... K...

Unless Mish is replaced before the Day's end (not looking too likely), then I don't think him killing anybody in the night if he's the Exterminator is going to be a problem.

... That's true, but if he is the Exterminator, then we'll need to find out eventually.

Wait, wait, wait, before I say something stupid here, what are you suggesting here?  That we lynch him anyway?

I see you didn't bother to absorb all of the text I wrote and instead jumped both to the end and conclusions. I'm stating that there's three possibilities for Exterminator, and I'm focusing on the one that needs focusing. Just because you turn a blind eye to everything, doesn't make it impossible.

Perhaps you can sit in the corner and chainsaw defend from there. I'm sure your evergrowing stupidity will reach me there.

Yeah! This is more like the webadict we've come to expect and love! I do wish you snipped your quotes more, though.

But, I'll start on an entirely different topic. Mr.Person. I think I can show that he inspected me on the first Night. I realize it's not provable without a Medium, but I'm almost certain he inspected me.

One, he was after me the first Day. He always seems to have some sort of problem with me or I with him. However, at the start of the next Day, he wasn't pushing me anymore. Looking at his first post shows that he finds me suspicious, but less so than usually and goes on to comment about my overall play style.

It was very out of character for Webadict to be lurking. Sure, he had an excuse, but the posts he did make were very passive and weak. Now you can make all the excuses you want, but the only reason I'm going to unvote for that is if he started acting different. Which he has, by the way, so no more Webadict vote for me. At least for now. Actually, ugh, I hate playing with Webadict. It's like trying to read a foreign language or solve a crazy hard logic problem. You know it's possible, but you just can't figure how.

He mentions needing to grab new suspicions, calling me out of character, but overall DROPPING THE ATTACK. I do not contend that this is proof of my being Town. But, it goes a long way towards refuting Zathras's argument against me.

Hmmm... Yes, I grant that he dropped his attack on day two. Whether this means he inspected you or what that means for your alignment is a different question, however.

If there's a Medium, I'm sure he can confirm it. I'm almost 98% sure.

Like I said before: Zathras had no need to warn the victim of his roleblock about it. Doing so seems to only cover his own hide, as usually.

The purpose for last night's block was to have independent confirmation of warden-style flavour. I followed JTF's advice here:

Revealing it in the thread probably gives the dopps too much information, but this is an open PM game.  At the very least, let someone (who you trust (yes, I realize this is Mafia, but there has to be someone)) know before the day ends who you're going to block via PM. They don't even have to reveal anything until tomorrow. Just let them know now, so we have a timestamped PM quote to verify it (yes, you can fake them but it will help)

I chose Kamina as a) he had been one of the most vocal "lynch Zath the alien!" dudes; b) going for JTF or Jim would have been too obvious; and c) I was worried about being set up for a PWV/sentrygun kill or giving a plasma bomb a tempting target (baseless, since warding is a remote thing, but I missed that at the time). He has confirmed that the flavour was a warden's; for you to insist I'm an alien, he'd have to be my willing co-conspirator, which I think is pretty far fetched (or go ahead and re-read day two discussion; it was painful).
[/quote]
I can assume that Chains appear on Stun Bombs just in case he's not a co-conspirator. Meph can confirm whether Stun Bombs show Chains or do not, but dropping this because of one thing won't be enough.

You can't make it an either or. It's always more than that.

Zathras has displayed numerous self-preservation symptoms. He has purposefully delayed release of information so that he would not be a target (naturally making an enemy or suspicious person out of himself). He has willfully gone after only one person, with ennui towards all other lynches. And he has placed his own well-being above stopping scum. He didn't tell anyone he was a Roleblocker so that he wouldn't be killed by the Doppelgangers.

No. Again, I voted Pandar on my first post of the day, and claimed the block on the second (barring a minor correction in between). It left ample time for discussion, and it worked, so bugger off. As far as going after others, I've indicated other viable targets for my vote, but none has been more prevalent than you; this being your first honest effort to participate in the game was a large part of it.

I'm still saying that you waited so that you wouldn't be a target. And I have been busy. Finals and what-not. This is the first evening I actually got to write something.

Also, he seems blissfully ignorant that the scum would clearly know that someone gunning for them would know who blocked them. You're not trying to help the Town. But, why? What has you so wound up that you must go after lurkers and safe your own skin?

I'm not helping the town?! I prevented a kill and lynched a tough dopp! How have you helped the town? Other than the grievous error of outing Pandar in my second post instead of the first, how am I overly protective of my own skin?

You wrote in the PM to Kamina to lower any protection he would have, meaning you were trying to protect yourself.

Ah, but... You can't leave your house, can you? What if a Reporter tracked you going to someone's house last Night? What if you took a Stun Orb with you as your Tech? I suppose nobody else has thoroughly inspected the rules? Stun Orbs can have two-uses for Medium Tech. Now, it seems like this is all making sense, right? You're the Exterminator, right? You don't have a Shield or anything to protect you, so you stayed at home, in case some Reporter wanted to see you leave, breaking into my house and killing me. Is that it?

Yeah, that must be it. That what-if on top of what-if is meaningless WIFOM, it would still require Kamina to lie on my behalf, and, if I were the exterminator, making ridiculously bad tech choices and choosing not to kill.... Far-fetched doesn't begin to describe it.

Perhaps there's more to it than that? You could have taken the Large Tech that grabs smaller Tech whenever. You could have taken the chance for Kamina to lie, as surviving one more Day grants you immunity to lynch. You could have taken the Stun Orbs from your Operative. You seem to be ignoring these.

I mean, all WIFOM right there.

And now that I'm done piecing things together, I'll move on.

I don't think you are honest in your analysis. I think you are still lashing out at those who lash at you, lying through your teeth and knowingly misrepresenting facts in the process. Your Person point was the only good point in your defence you've made today; although it is interesting, I'll think about it for a bit before I decide whether to unvote you or not.

But, the Person defense is the least important. The important portion is that THERE IS AN EXTERMINATOR AND HE NEEDS TO DIE. If it's Mish, then there's little to worry about. But, I think you being the Exterminator is a very real possibility.

This is what it boils down to: He thinks Zathras is scum, while I'm apparently town.
Explain how this makes any sense at all.
The issue here isn't him attacking Zathras, it's him making an effort to attack him while not considering pretty much the largest obstacle in this case.
Also: Why wouldn't I defend a (almost confirmed) townie (confirmed psychic warden anyway)?  Webadict said himself that we need to lynch scum today, yet didn't confront the largest problem in his case.
Don't like it.

Hell, I'm really damn tempted to. Every piece of logic in my mind is saying that you both being scum doesn't make sense, but my gut... my gut wants to see how you'll flip. And I listen to my gut.

So do you trust logic, or your gut?  Especially, if it is, as Webadict claims, LYLO.

... WHEN DID I CLAIM IT WAS LYLO!?!? ARE YOU AN IDIOT?!? GREATER AND MINOR DEITIES! YOUR BOILING STUPIDITIES BURNS MY EYES! THAT'S ALL THERE IS!

There's only so much I can take from you. You haven't looked at anything you've written.

Actually Kamina, my goal is to see the people i think are scum hanged. Right now, i don't buy Zathras claim. Really, you could be both aliens, or both dopps for all i know. I won't just stop feeling it by your only word. Really, if you were a townie (fat chance there, id say) would you not be irked if someone tested a claim with someone HE chose ? Think about it that way. no exterminator kill last night. Meaning he got blocked (seen nobody having that power for now, since mindshield would be innefective) or he just prefered not killing anybody. Really, the easiest out is to use your scunmfriend help and stage a fakclaim with the pms.  I would not argue if i had the mod post in front of me with the date and hour, but all i got is your word.Sorry, but that is not flying with me.  Hell, looking back at you guy interacting it's almost sickening. Zathras being all stern and fatherly when everyone was asking for your head, a real class act.

For the record, i dont think its LYLO yet, the exterminator has to kill some mafia eventually, we may have a guardien or war vet around to give town an edge. Still, need more scum to die soon or it's gonna go south.

Get those mods post, show me the flavor. Else get that rope ready.

Umm, no quoting the mod.

POSTING FLAVOR TEXT IS AGAINST THE RULES!
HOW MANY TIMES MUST THIS BE POINTED OUT?!
THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME IS THAT YOU ONLY HAVE MY WORD!
Like I said, bad as/worse than Ottofar/Jetsquirrel.
At least they know the rules.

Calm down, kid. If anyone should be fuming, it's anyone that reads YOUR posts. It's like you hemorrhage incoherencies wherever possible.

[KaminaSquirtle]

As for your points, what else could I do as town?  NOT tell everyone that Zathras blocked me?
Why he didn't choose to lynch someone has been mentioned before.

I chose Kamina as a) he had been one of the most vocal "lynch Zath the alien!" dudes; b) going for JTF or Jim would have been too obvious; and c) I was worried about being set up for a PWV/sentrygun kill or giving a plasma bomb a tempting target (baseless, since warding is a remote thing, but I missed that at the time). He has confirmed that the flavour was a warden's; for you to insist I'm an alien, he'd have to be my willing co-conspirator, which I think is pretty far fetched (or go ahead and re-read day two discussion; it was painful).

There you have it.

Next post addresses Webadict's response.

[Jim Groovester]

This is what it boils down to: He thinks Zathras is scum, while I'm apparently town.
Explain how this makes any sense at all.
The issue here isn't him attacking Zathras, it's him making an effort to attack him while not considering pretty much the largest obstacle in this case.
Also: Why wouldn't I defend a (almost confirmed) townie (confirmed psychic warden anyway)?  Webadict said himself that we need to lynch scum today, yet didn't confront the largest problem in his case.
Don't like it.

Instead of flipping your shit about it you could try pointing it out to webadict and asking questions calmly. When you overreact like you just did you invite such inconvenient questions like "Why the fuck do you care so much?" and "Why do you have to come rushing to Zathras' rescue every time somebody suspects him?"

When you keep doing this you two look joined at the hip, like you're in it together, like you share the same win condition, and that means you look an awfully lot like scum.

But fuck, KaminaSquirtle, people can determine whether or not a player is scummy independently of all other concerns. Why don't you quit flipping your shit about people not implying that you are scum when they suspect Zathras. I mean, if you and Zathras want to be forever together, you're doing a great job of dragging you two both down.

Hell, I'm really damn tempted to. Every piece of logic in my mind is saying that you both being scum doesn't make sense, but my gut... my gut wants to see how you'll flip. And I listen to my gut.

So do you trust logic, or your gut?  Especially, if it is, as Webadict claims, LYLO.

I trust my gut more than I trust any logic.

Get those mods post, show me the flavor. Else get that rope ready.

You do realize you are asking KaminaSquirtle and Zathras to break the rule about not quoting PMs from the mod, don't you?

Don't do it again.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Heh, served it's purpose well enough (but really, i got mixed since earlier there was a few post that must have been  from para 16 or something in the thread, so i kind of assumed. Sorry about that).

Still satisfied the reaction I got from him.

[Jim Groovester]

Meph reveals all the action PMs he sent out at the end of the game. Since they were posted publicly and were not about a game currently in progress it was perfectly acceptable to post them again.

And if you're satisfied by the reaction, tell me, how so?

[KaminaSquirtle]

Kamina: Wrong. You weren't listening to the post. I said that Stun Orbs can be turned into a two-use Stun Orb. That means you could easily be a normal townsperson. In fact, I have no idea why you're freaking out, because I explicitly stated all of this.

Yes.  But I thought stun orbs didn't give the chain flavor?

Would you care to point out where I said you were lying? Seems like a Freudian slip if anything. Please, point it out. If you WANT to have a scumteam with him, then by all means, go. I have never seen someone freak out faster about me attacking someone else.

Now, hunting for the Exterminator is slightly scummy, yes, but if I can find the Exterminator, he needs to be lynched first. The chance of him killing a Townie is higher than him killing a Doppelganger. However, I have listed a few people who I suspect are dopps (Toaster, Leafsnail, Ottofar), but I would rather kill the Exterminator first. The math and logic are sound.

The basis of my argument was that the roleblock flavor mentioned chains, and that a stun orb block wouldn't.
I never meant that you said I was lying, but that the only explanation for Zathras being Exterminator would be me lying.  This is operating under the assumption that only warden blocks give the chain flavor.

Because if Mish is the Exterminator, Zathras would likely be Town, plus the entire situation makes sense. It seems you're freaking out over nothing.

I suppose so.  I think I seriously misunderstood your post.

If there's a Medium, I'm sure he can confirm it. I'm almost 98% sure.

I doubt we started with more than two.  But I suppose so.

I can assume that Chains appear on Stun Bombs just in case he's not a co-conspirator. Meph can confirm whether Stun Bombs show Chains or do not, but dropping this because of one thing won't be enough.

You can't make it an either or. It's always more than that.

Ok, this is important.  Just know that if they don't, then I will maintain that Zathras is town.

... WHEN DID I CLAIM IT WAS LYLO!?!? ARE YOU AN IDIOT?!? GREATER AND MINOR DEITIES! YOUR BOILING STUPIDITIES BURNS MY EYES! THAT'S ALL THERE IS!

There's only so much I can take from you. You haven't looked at anything you've written.

This is where I thought I saw that.  You said you have to lynch scum.  I thought that was the definition of LYLO?

There's 3 Dopps and at least one anti-Town alien. That's 4+/11, meaning we have to lynch scum today. If we mislynch, this leads to 3 town deaths, with the possibility of a Scientist kill, leaving us with 4+/7-8.

I also forgot that at least one of the 4+ would be an alien.  So that dopps wouldn't win here.
And yes, I have been an idiot, thank you for pointing that out.

Calm down, kid. If anyone should be fuming, it's anyone that reads YOUR posts. It's like you hemorrhage incoherencies wherever possible.

You're right...
I need to reevaluate how these posts are coming out.

Instead of flipping your shit about it you could try pointing it out to webadict and asking questions calmly. When you overreact like you just did you invite such inconvenient questions like "Why the fuck do you care so much?" and "Why do you have to come rushing to Zathras' rescue every time somebody suspects him?"

When you keep doing this you two look joined at the hip, like you're in it together, like you share the same win condition, and that means you look an awfully lot like scum.

But fuck, KaminaSquirtle, people can determine whether or not a player is scummy independently of all other concerns. Why don't you quit flipping your shit about people not implying that you are scum when they suspect Zathras. I mean, if you and Zathras want to be forever together, you're doing a great job of dragging you two both down.

I didn't mean to flip my shit.

As long as wardens are the only ones who give the chain flavor, the only conclusion I can reach is Zathras being a warden, seeing as I got the chain flavor.

I need to reevaluate.