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Author Topic: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds  (Read 8041 times)

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2010, 07:48:33 am »
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 06, 2010, 04:48:22 pm
Quote from: krenshala on November 05, 2010, 06:28:34 pm
'm assuming its part of the D&D:WoW ... er, 4th edition ...   ::)

they were reptilian in the Monster Manual, that's 3.5
I know. That's not what I was saying. I was saying that I didn't know if 4th edition still had reptilian kobolds.

Quote from: Reese on November 06, 2010, 06:17:29 pm
The jump from 2nd ed. to 3rd ed. has them as lizard people instead of poorly defined dog/rat people, and builds out the idea of sorcerers and kobolds having draconian blood. (and a tradition of kobold sorcerers as enemies)
Ah.

Quote from: Arkenstone on November 06, 2010, 09:45:39 pm
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 04, 2010, 07:41:57 pm
there's no magic in df, you're out of luck if you want kobold sorcerers. df is drifting more in the direction of mythology and fairy tales than that of traditional fantasy, so if magic is ever supported, don't expect your typical dnd magic
Um, that IS traditional fantasy!  D&D/WoW are to traditional fantasy what modern "horror" films are to Poe and Lovecraft: they just pile on the cheap Hollywood "thrillers" (in this case gory deaths) at the expense of the art of the original.
Um, that IS his point! I think.

Quote from: Arkenstone on November 06, 2010, 09:45:39 pm
Who says that there can't be some kobolds gibbering in caves and others who are powerful dragon-blooded warlocks, that they have to be different species or only one can exist?  Even real-life humanity has vaster gulfs than that.  Also, who says that two species can't share the same name or that different people call the same thing different names?  Who here knows the difference between a cougar and a panther and a mountain lion, or between african (north and south) and indian (and boatmurdered) elephants?
I agree, but have to point out: Seeing as the draconics are reptiles and the other ones are mammals, they have more gaps (at least biologically) than different groups of humans do. However, if humans could use magic, and all kobolds were of the same biological class, I'd agree totally.

Quote from: Tiler on November 08, 2010, 10:12:36 pm
stuff
Cool! Someone who remembers the original purpose of this thread!
Three things:
1.) YES. I have read RotD. That's where I learned about dragonwrought, etc kobolds. I would have explained that, but I didn't think there would be enough 3.5 D&D players for it to matter if I did.
2.) Would adding that stuff, changing kobolds, etc mess up a world I had previously generated  if none of the forts were near kobold territory?
3.)
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 08, 2010, 10:23:49 pm
awesome, why not post everything? looks like a great start to a Dragoni-mod!
...What he said.
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Quote from: piecewise on April 19, 2014, 10:27:57 am
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Tiler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2010, 10:46:23 am »
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on November 09, 2010, 07:48:33 am
Quote from: Tiler on November 08, 2010, 10:12:36 pm
stuff
Cool! Someone who remembers the original purpose of this thread!
Three things:
1.) YES. I have read RotD. That's where I learned about dragonwrought, etc kobolds. I would have explained that, but I didn't think there would be enough 3.5 D&D players for it to matter if I did.
2.) Would adding that stuff, changing kobolds, etc mess up a world I had previously generated  if none of the forts were near kobold territory?
3.)
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 08, 2010, 10:23:49 pm
awesome, why not post everything? looks like a great start to a Dragoni-mod!
...What he said.

2. Well each save you have has its own self-contained raw files it uses, so changing the main ones shouldn't affect the game at all. If you change the ones in the save file... then I don't know. :I

3. The reactions I excluded, I didn't make (which I think I broke in the meantime). The other stuff is just sort of half-assed and really deserves someone who is more dedicated to make it so I didn't really bother including it but whatevs.
Dragons and Wyrverns:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Plain Gnomes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gnome Entity:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some additional items:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Arkenstone

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2010, 12:38:42 pm »
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 08, 2010, 06:21:38 pm
Quote from: Arkenstone on November 08, 2010, 06:09:39 pm
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 07, 2010, 08:25:00 pm
Your argument about there being no magic is still flawed , though.  [. . .]
I never said it wasn't doable, I said there are legitimate story reasons why having fire balls and icy death fling around often and not be wierd and mysterious might be undesireable.  [. . .]
Nobody here is asking Toady to change anything.  This is a modding forum, not the suggestions page.  In here, DF is what we make it.

And legitimate story reasons? Please.

Anyway, anyone made any progress on these little suckers?
Spoiler: I did point out some examples... (click to show/hide)
But, you’re right.  This is the modding forum, not discussion or suggestions.  If you want to make a thread on one of them, we can continue there instead of interrupting this one.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2010, 03:57:03 pm »
Quote from: Tiler on November 09, 2010, 10:46:23 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on November 09, 2010, 07:48:33 am
Quote from: Tiler on November 08, 2010, 10:12:36 pm
stuff
Cool! Someone who remembers the original purpose of this thread!
Three things:
1.) YES. I have read RotD. That's where I learned about dragonwrought, etc kobolds. I would have explained that, but I didn't think there would be enough 3.5 D&D players for it to matter if I did.
2.) Would adding that stuff, changing kobolds, etc mess up a world I had previously generated  if none of the forts were near kobold territory?
3.)
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 08, 2010, 10:23:49 pm
awesome, why not post everything? looks like a great start to a Dragoni-mod!
...What he said.

2. Well each save you have has its own self-contained raw files it uses, so changing the main ones shouldn't affect the game at all. If you change the ones in the save file... then I don't know. :I

3. The reactions I excluded, I didn't make (which I think I broke in the meantime). The other stuff is just sort of half-assed and really deserves someone who is more dedicated to make it so I didn't really bother including it but whatevs.
Dragons and Wyrverns:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Plain Gnomes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gnome Entity:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some additional items:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thanks!
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Quote from: piecewise on April 19, 2014, 10:27:57 am
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2010, 01:51:23 am »
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on November 09, 2010, 07:48:33 am
Quote from: Arkenstone on November 06, 2010, 09:45:39 pm
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 04, 2010, 07:41:57 pm
there's no magic in df, you're out of luck if you want kobold sorcerers. df is drifting more in the direction of mythology and fairy tales than that of traditional fantasy, so if magic is ever supported, don't expect your typical dnd magic
Um, that IS traditional fantasy!  D&D/WoW are to traditional fantasy what modern "horror" films are to Poe and Lovecraft: they just pile on the cheap Hollywood "thrillers" (in this case gory deaths) at the expense of the art of the original.
Um, that IS his point! I think.

nope, it wasnt. mythology and fairy tales are not fantasy in my opinion, as when they were arround people actually believed in it. magic in these tales was something mystical and not really understandable or explainable, not a sort of pseudo-science involving magic words, magic ingredients, named spells, magic energies, balls of fire, etc. that's more the realm of modern cheap fantasy, which i called "traditional", but was a poorly chosen word and i already acepted it.
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Toastergargletop

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2010, 02:12:53 am »
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 10, 2010, 01:51:23 am
mythology and fairy tales are not fantasy in my opinion, as when they were arround people actually believed in it.

uhh...................

EDIT TO KEEP THE THREAD ON TRACK:

so has anyone used these yet?

With the castes; should there be more than one type of dragon wrought?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 02:16:01 am by Toastergargletop »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2010, 04:15:37 pm »
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 10, 2010, 02:12:53 am
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 10, 2010, 01:51:23 am
mythology and fairy tales are not fantasy in my opinion, as when they were arround people actually believed in it.

uhh...................

EDIT TO KEEP THE THREAD ON TRACK:

so has anyone used these yet?

With the castes; should there be more than one type of dragon wrought?
Thanks for trying to stop the diversion!
I did use the mod.
TOTAL MODS USED:
The stuff in the first actual code post, with the entity being renamed DRACONIC
Original kobolds renamed "skulks," entity changed to reflect this
An entity called "DRACON" that would not spawn for technical reasons to be explained on request
[CIV_CONTROLABLE] added to all entities
[PETVALUE:10] added to wagons

Result: No kobold, skulk, or animalman civs seemed to spawn. Maybe just a fluke, but there were many goblins, humen, dwarves, and elves.


And as for castes, it would be great if some had wings, some were just a bit more draconic (no other way to explain it unless you've played 3.5 D&D), etc, and there were a few with multiple of these traits; BUT I would be fine if you just added one "dragonwrought" caste.

EDIT: I am generating an enormous world with max civilizations, min history and megabeasts, and anything else I thought would boost the chance of a kobold/skulk/animalman civ surviving. If this doesn't get one, something's wrong.

EDIT2: Kobolds, yes; skulks, it seems not; animalman, do they appear on the legends screen?

EDIT3: Oops, I forgot to change skulks' in-game name.

EDIT4: In the arena, dragon kobolds always beat up skulk-kobolds. Whoo! Go team!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 05:43:09 pm by GreatWyrmGold »
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Quote from: piecewise on April 19, 2014, 10:27:57 am
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Tiler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2010, 08:54:48 pm »
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on November 10, 2010, 04:15:37 pm
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 10, 2010, 02:12:53 am
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 10, 2010, 01:51:23 am
mythology and fairy tales are not fantasy in my opinion, as when they were arround people actually believed in it.

uhh...................

EDIT TO KEEP THE THREAD ON TRACK:

so has anyone used these yet?

With the castes; should there be more than one type of dragon wrought?
Thanks for trying to stop the diversion!
I did use the mod.
TOTAL MODS USED:
The stuff in the first actual code post, with the entity being renamed DRACONIC
Original kobolds renamed "skulks," entity changed to reflect this
An entity called "DRACON" that would not spawn for technical reasons to be explained on request
[CIV_CONTROLABLE] added to all entities
[PETVALUE:10] added to wagons

Result: No kobold, skulk, or animalman civs seemed to spawn. Maybe just a fluke, but there were many goblins, humen, dwarves, and elves.


And as for castes, it would be great if some had wings, some were just a bit more draconic (no other way to explain it unless you've played 3.5 D&D), etc, and there were a few with multiple of these traits; BUT I would be fine if you just added one "dragonwrought" caste.

EDIT: I am generating an enormous world with max civilizations, min history and megabeasts, and anything else I thought would boost the chance of a kobold/skulk/animalman civ surviving. If this doesn't get one, something's wrong.

EDIT2: Kobolds, yes; skulks, it seems not; animalman, do they appear on the legends screen?

EDIT3: Oops, I forgot to change skulks' in-game name.

EDIT4: In the arena, dragon kobolds always beat up skulk-kobolds. Whoo! Go team!

Yeah, kobolds beat up the DF kobolds pretty readily; they're bigger by quite a bit (50000 vs 20000, with dwarves at 60000); so probably win even when it comes to brute force, despite their sizable strength penalty.

Also, feel free to screw around with the entity values if you're not getting them to spawn on worldgen; I've been trying to get them to live in caves without being exterminated, but it's a pretty tricky business. You might cheat it by bumping their site limit/starting group numbers up to some obscene amount if you have difficulty there, but typicially if you start the game at around 200 and make sure you have a ton of caves for kobolds to live in, you should have enough. Or you can give them a different starting city type, but that tends to make them a bit too powerful since they have decent equipment and lots of offspring.

Dragonwrought kobolds are able to fly, breathe fire, and have wings. They are very rare, though, with only one in 300 kobolds being a dragonwrought.
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Toastergargletop

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2010, 11:09:10 pm »
1 in 300 seems fairly sparse, and i think playing around with different breeds of dragonwrought would be great (ice breathing breeds etc.)

I also at one point made it so that Dragons became regional powers; something to do with the spheres and adding a certain tag ([POWER]?) i think it was.  We should try to make the Kobolds worship dragons as often as possible.

GREAT WORK SO FAR!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2011, 09:13:18 am »
I just noticed something.

When using the kobolds and gnomes, I got the following errors (plus one that happened when I was messing around with ethics):

*** Error(s) found in the file "data/save/region2/raw/objects/creature_standard.txt"
KOBOLD BP Mod DEEP_VOICE Was Not Used
KOBOLD BP Mod RASPY_VOICE Was Not Used
GNOME_PLAIN BP Mod DEEP_VOICE Was Not Used
GNOME_PLAIN BP Mod RASPY_VOICE Was Not Used

EDIT: Oh, and
*** Error(s) finalizing the entity DRACONIC
Unrecognized entity armor token: ITEM_ARMOR_CHITIN
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 09:17:14 am by GreatWyrmGold »
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Quote from: piecewise on April 19, 2014, 10:27:57 am
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Tiler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2011, 12:57:26 am »
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on January 09, 2011, 09:13:18 am
I just noticed something.

When using the kobolds and gnomes, I got the following errors (plus one that happened when I was messing around with ethics):

*** Error(s) found in the file "data/save/region2/raw/objects/creature_standard.txt"
KOBOLD BP Mod DEEP_VOICE Was Not Used
KOBOLD BP Mod RASPY_VOICE Was Not Used
GNOME_PLAIN BP Mod DEEP_VOICE Was Not Used
GNOME_PLAIN BP Mod RASPY_VOICE Was Not Used

EDIT: Oh, and
*** Error(s) finalizing the entity DRACONIC
Unrecognized entity armor token: ITEM_ARMOR_CHITIN

The voice issue is because Toady changed where deep/raspy voices are specified to be part of, from MOUTH to THROAT. So depending on your version, you need to go into the raws and change that from    [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH] to    [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]

Just delete that armor token thing, its a left over when I was trying to create a custom workshop that could make equipment out of chitin. It failed miserably since there is no way to specify clothing size with custom reactions, and trying to add [HARD] or other sorts of tags to chitin itself results in all sorts of silliness like chitin flasks and underwear, and I just gave up after that.

Also, I just realized that "scrap armor" idea could still work, maybe, in a roundabout way... I could take away smelters from kobolds and give them a custom workshop that turns equipment into x iron bars, which can make kobold specific equipment, starting from cheap but lousy Scrap Mail to prohibitively expensive but decent Replica Mail or something. It'd also be easy to allow it to customize large equipment into ones kobolds could use, by say, turning a 2H Sword into a Broken 2H Sword (maybe "Half-a-Hand Sword"), instead of letting them smelt stuff.

It'd make running a fort with them more "fun" and more kobold-esque, instead of having them make their own mail and plate and stuff, which always felt wrong.
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Aarik

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2011, 11:53:29 am »
Hmmm... There was a mod in 40d or before that that had DnD dragons...

With the Chromatics, which are the ones who would attack your forts ANYWAY, the only ones I see being problematic to make are the Blues.

Reds breath fire so there's already [DRAGONFIREBREATH] and [FIREBREATH].

Blacks breath acid... I think there's a way to do that, or at least shoot something that melts and boils should be easy.

Greens breath poison, so Syndrome with trailing dust flow.

Whites do frost breath, and someone in this thread said that was possible already so I'll take their word for it.

But Blues shoot lightning.

How do you make something breath lightning?
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SalmonGod

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2011, 04:34:38 pm »
Quote from: Aarik on January 21, 2011, 11:53:29 am
How do you make something breath lightning?

Not experienced with modding here, but make the breath attack really fast and syndrome-based.  It causes a very short paralysis and suffocation effect on top of a boatload of heat damage that targets nerves more than other tissues.  That's what electricity does, right?  It causes burns, but it kills by melting nervous systems.
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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2011, 02:40:03 am »
I didn't even realize that DF Kobolds were mammals, I just assumed they were the Draconic ones I was familiar with, the ones I loved. I must remedy this.
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Lagotrope

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2011, 06:25:16 pm »
Quote from: Urist Mcinternetuser on January 22, 2011, 02:40:03 am
I didn't even realize that DF Kobolds were mammals, I just assumed they were the Draconic ones I was familiar with, the ones I loved. I must remedy this.

Although I forget where exactly it was mentioned, I believe Toady mentioned kobolds to be a sort of cross between mammals and reptilian/draconic creatures, with a mix of those traits. It wasn't explained in detail, and given the raws are the only thing we have to go on otherwise that I'm aware of, it does leave a lot to the imagination.

That being said, as fond as I am of cutebolds, I'm glad to see DnD kobolds getting some love as well.
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