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Author Topic: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds  (Read 8047 times)

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 07:27:22 pm »
Quote from: Drakeero on November 01, 2010, 08:04:14 pm
Personally, I like the rat kobolds.  Why not keep the current kobolds as is, then add a small drakeling kinda race, and have BOTH to harass your fortress?

If you can find a way to do it, make the drakelings extremely good/fast master thieves who only steal artifacts of things of steel + cotton candy while kobolds will still get whatever they can get their hands on.
A.) Cotton candy? Did I miss something?
B.) This would be fine; it wouldn't be hard to change the drakeling's name to "kobold" for, say, me.

Quote from: Xenos on November 01, 2010, 08:22:32 pm
Cutebolds>any other kobold.  Especially the grody Warcraft Kobolds...
"Cutebolds?"

Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 01, 2010, 10:09:33 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on November 01, 2010, 09:16:29 pm
Quote from: Xenos on November 01, 2010, 08:22:32 pm
Cutebolds>any other kobold.  Especially the grody Warcraft Kobolds...

Though, to me, this D&D stuff seems a bit too magic-y for Dwarf Fortress....

Are you kidding!!!??  In a game with Dragons, dragonlike creatures are too much?
Seconded...Fayrik, you have an odd outlook.
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 07:41:57 pm »
there's no magic in df, you're out of luck if you want kobold sorcerers. df is drifting more in the direction of mythology and fairy tales than that of traditional fantasy, so if magic is ever supported, don't expect your typical dnd magic
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2010, 04:32:35 pm »
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 04, 2010, 07:41:57 pm
there's no magic in df, you're out of luck if you want kobold sorcerers. df is drifting more in the direction of mythology and fairy tales than that of traditional fantasy, so if magic is ever supported, don't expect your typical dnd magic
I understand. I was just thinking, if people can mod magic in, maybe they can also mod certain races to have special magical powers.
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Quote from: piecewise on April 19, 2014, 10:27:57 am
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krenshala

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2010, 06:28:34 pm »
Considering someone posted about how kobolds looting enough stuff unopposed will eventually seige you, I'd say DF already has classic (2nd Ed and earlier) kobolds down pat.  Anyone that has fought properly played kobolds in D&D know they might be weak individually, but they are mean, crafty, sneaky, and only stick around for a fight if they have sufficiently superior numbers (3:1 odds per the books).

I'm  not sure where this "dragonkin" thing with kobolds came from, however.  I'm assuming its part of the D&D:WoW ... er, 4th edition ...   ::)
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2010, 04:48:22 pm »
Quote from: krenshala on November 05, 2010, 06:28:34 pm
'm assuming its part of the D&D:WoW ... er, 4th edition ...   ::)

they were reptilian in neverwinter nights, that's 3.5
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Reese

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2010, 06:17:29 pm »
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 06, 2010, 04:48:22 pm
Quote from: krenshala on November 05, 2010, 06:28:34 pm
'm assuming its part of the D&D:WoW ... er, 4th edition ...   ::)

they were reptilian in neverwinter nights, that's 3.5

The jump from 2nd ed. to 3rd ed. has them as lizard people instead of poorly defined dog/rat people, and builds out the idea of sorcerers and kobolds having draconian blood. (and a tradition of kobold sorcerers as enemies)

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Kaelem Gaen

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2010, 07:42:14 pm »
Wizards Tower seemed to figure a nice way to do magic (the mod)  in adventure mode it was Adventure mode reactions, granted that means any race/character could do em I believe.

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SalmonGod

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2010, 08:53:05 pm »
Quote from: Reese on November 06, 2010, 06:17:29 pm
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 06, 2010, 04:48:22 pm
Quote from: krenshala on November 05, 2010, 06:28:34 pm
'm assuming its part of the D&D:WoW ... er, 4th edition ...   ::)

they were reptilian in neverwinter nights, that's 3.5

The jump from 2nd ed. to 3rd ed. has them as lizard people instead of poorly defined dog/rat people, and builds out the idea of sorcerers and kobolds having draconian blood. (and a tradition of kobold sorcerers as enemies)

But they still bark!

Personally, the kobolds are one thing I like about 3rd ed.  The mischievous little yipping lizard people are quite charming mini-mooks.
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Arkenstone

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2010, 09:45:39 pm »
Quote from: Askot Bokbondeler on November 04, 2010, 07:41:57 pm
there's no magic in df, you're out of luck if you want kobold sorcerers. df is drifting more in the direction of mythology and fairy tales than that of traditional fantasy, so if magic is ever supported, don't expect your typical dnd magic
Um, that IS traditional fantasy!  D&D/WoW are to traditional fantasy what modern "horror" films are to Poe and Lovecraft: they just pile on the cheap Hollywood "thrillers" (in this case gory deaths) at the expense of the art of the original.
I'm not saying this is entirely a bad thing, because (for example) in order to have a playable wizard character you can't make him ten times as powerful as the rest of the party combined and just trust that he'll be as responsible and wise as Gandalf was.  But having things like magic being ultra-powerful and mysterious (and therefore not controllable by the player) adds a lot to the story.

Personally, I think this thread falls into the pitfall of too many races that are very simmilar.  But I like the direction Toady is going with castes/random monsters here, it goes along with how non-human races used to be.  It used to be that the words elf, fairy, goblin, imp, ogre, troll, giant, kobald (german for goblin) and more were all interchangable to a degree.  Even "dwarf" could mean the same as "elf"; although dwarves have been more or less universally accepted as having beards.  (Mining too, but only because of Snow White and much later LotR though.)
 
For example: you are an adventurer, and some villagers ask you to slay a giant for them.  You confront the beast, who happens to be only eight feet tall.  You go back and tell the villigers that was only an ogre, not a giant, to which they reply: "Of course it's a giant, did you see how tall he is?!?  Head 'n sholders above a man, could eat a horse for breakfast..."

In fact, in LotR the only reason Tolkien used the word "Elf" was because everyone *KNEW* that a fairy was tiny and had wings, and it LotR would be written off as a children's book if he even mentioned the word (which he does in The Hobbit).  A simmilar thing happened with orcs, which is a name Tolkien based off of the old english name one of three races in Beowulf that were said to have come from Cain's liniage, the other two being elfs and giants.

The way DF is starting to parallel LotR in terms of races also has to do with orcs.  The very word "Uruk-hai" litterally translates as orc-race, where race in this case is not referring to a different species, but a race as in racism, just another breed.  In the case of orcs though, the difference between different orcs is marginal, although no less than the difference between a lot of the D&D races.

That's why I like DF, it strikes a balance (or at least will) by having all the different races in D&D-style but accepting that alot of them are really the same species.  Who says that there can't be some kobolds gibbering in caves and others who are powerful dragon-blooded warlocks, that they have to be different species or only one can exist?  Even real-life humanity has vaster gulfs than that.  Also, who says that two species can't share the same name or that different people call the same thing different names?  Who here knows the difference between a cougar and a panther and a mountain lion, or between african (north and south) and indian (and boatmurdered) elephants?
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2010, 11:24:17 pm »
i absolutely agree with you and unfortunately your post failed to teach me anything new. what i meant with "traditional fantasy" was obvious, but the word "typical" would probably been more appropriate.
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Toastergargletop

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2010, 08:25:00 pm »
Your argument about there being no magic is still flawed , though.  Making a kobold that flings fire balls and icey death is pretty damn do-able.

Also, DF is what you want it to be.
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Arkenstone

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2010, 06:09:39 pm »
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 07, 2010, 08:25:00 pm
Your argument about there being no magic is still flawed , though.  Making a kobold that flings fire balls and icey death is pretty damn do-able.

Also, DF is what you want it to be.
I never said it wasn't doable, I said there are legitimate story reasons why having fire balls and icy death fling around often and not be wierd and mysterious might be undesireable.

And DF is what TOADY wants it to be, he doesn't have to change his game to satisfy anyone else.  Of course, we can do whatever we want with modding, a tool he has graciously provided us.
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Dwarven economics are still in the experimental stages. The humans have told them that they need to throw a lot of money around to get things going, but every time the dwarves try all they just end up with a bunch of coins lying all over the place.

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Feel free to ask me any questions you have about logic/computing; I'm majoring in the topic.

Toastergargletop

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2010, 06:21:38 pm »
Quote from: Arkenstone on November 08, 2010, 06:09:39 pm
Quote from: Toastergargletop on November 07, 2010, 08:25:00 pm
Your argument about there being no magic is still flawed , though.  Making a kobold that flings fire balls and icey death is pretty damn do-able.

Also, DF is what you want it to be.
I never said it wasn't doable, I said there are legitimate story reasons why having fire balls and icy death fling around often and not be wierd and mysterious might be undesireable.

And DF is what TOADY wants it to be, he doesn't have to change his game to satisfy anyone else.  Of course, we can do whatever we want with modding, a tool he has graciously provided us.

Nobody here is asking Toady to change anything.  This is a modding forum, not the suggestions page.  In here, DF is what we make it.

And legitimate story reasons? Please.

Anyway, anyone made any progress on these little suckers?
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Tiler

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2010, 10:12:36 pm »
Wow, I'm a little late for the party here. Still, divine intervention that I saw this thread... or something.

I'm a fan of D&D kobolds myself, and have been tinkering with a race of them for a long while. This is what I've got.

Note that since I made this far before this thread existed, I didn't really note any of the ideas anyone's thrown around. Maybe this is what you are looking for, or maybe it's a good starting off point, or possibly its something for you to happily discard. In any case, here it is.

Creature Raws:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Entity Raws:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some Custom Items:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Custom Body raws (for their small horns):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Custom Reaction:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some notes:
These are the reptilian style kobolds with vaguely defined draconic ties, ala 3.5/4th edition D&D. I've been working on this thing as a little fun waste of time for quite a while now; the base is pretty much the Kobold Camp modification, but I've butchered it enough so there's really only a few vestiges of that mod left in here.

There are some reactions on there that you probably don't have. I only put in the ones here that I made myself, the USE_(material) ones. While its not really a reaction that serves any gameplay purpose, it gives the entity a defined type of metal which it thinks it can use, instead of what happens with kobolds otherwise, where they tend to have a random assortment of material for making things. The other reactions were made by other people, so you should go ahead and remove those yourself from the entity raw if you don't have them. Or just ignore them.

When looking for ideas for custom items, I noticed that the kobolds in Dungeons and Dragons Online tend to like wrapping themselves in... well, wrappings, so I made Torso Wraps/Wrappings for them to wear.

There were several things I really wanted to do that I couldn't. I couldn't make kobolds poisonous to eat ala Nethack and other Rougelikes due to poison limitations (eating any poison in DF is totally harmless). I couldn't give them a way to create chitin equipment despite my best efforts without a lot of silliness (chitin loincloths for instance), nor could I make a way to "scavenge" armor with a custom reaction and create some kind of "scrap armor" for them to use, which would have been a fun way to get them equipment instead of the blacksmithing route. Both of these failed since you cannot specify the size of the armor produced.

I've been currently screwing around with their entity stuff, mainly where they live, in efforts to create a more kobold-like civilization; I was looking to make them somehow get prissy with just about everyone, fight a lot, and generally be a pest everywhere while still being the whipping boy to the world. It doesn't really work; they either get exterminated or end up swamping a good deal of space thanks to their fast birth rates. I can't really find the sweet spot, unfortunately, but then again, I haven't messed with it since the new DF update that included sprawl, so maybe a way for it to work out was made in the meantime.

Speaking of entity stuff, their positions and the idea of "dragonwrought" kobolds was taken from Races of the Dragon, a 3.5 splatbook which had a section on kobolds. I used that book as a tool for a lot of the entity stuff, actually. Pretty handy. Worth a read if you are a fan of them.

Making the kobolds have faces with defined features, and yet still being reptilian was something I sort of half-assed by just chaning the wording from 'nose' to 'face' or something, I don't recall. It works out fine enough with the descriptions that I didn't really bother going back and messing with it further. Someone else could probably make something better.

I kept the kobolds glowing yellow pupil-less eyes, since I personally liked that detail from DF kobolds. I made their scale color run from light brown to black, with some red/pink in there too, but I also threw Cobalt in there, since that color was named after the folklore kobolds.

I also added a gnome race that had ethics near-opposite kobolds so that the two would fight a whole bunch. Wasn't really that interesting of a race though, so I didn't include it. I also have a species of intelligent dragon that matches up to the Kobold's religious ethics perfectly, so that dragons will frequently end up as the heads of their civilizations, or at least objects of worship. It doesn't work nearly as much as I'd like to to, so yet again, I left that bit out.

And on a last note, for some reason, kobolds always struck me as vaguely meso-american... which is pretty strange for a race "based on" a creature from german folklore.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 10:41:30 am by Tiler »
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Toastergargletop

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Re: D&D Fan Requesting Kobolds
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2010, 10:23:49 pm »
awesome, why not post everything? looks like a great start to a Dragoni-mod!
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