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[Mephisto]

Has anyone heard of this piece of work before, what is possibly one of the most complex tabletop gaming systems ever?

There appear to be three playable races, each with their own character sheets. The following three images are the only explanation needed for this game. Warning: huge images following. Linked due to sheer size.

Xylen
Kalei
Sil

The only real differences between the three are the centers of the sheets.

[Cthulhu]

I remember seeing one of those sheets on /tg/, I figured it was just a joke or some ridiculous homebrew system.

I like how all of the reviewer comments but one are talking about how nice the book looks.  That's promising.

Regardless, I want to play it, just to see.

[Mephisto]

There was an attempt to play through the quickstart module over on the Giant in the Playground forums, but the GM dropped out - said the ending was too depressing.

[Cthulhu]

I"m reading the quickstart module now.  The game requires eight twenty sided dice.  That is a lot of d20s

[Mephisto]

Eight isn't that bad. Buying a Pound-O-Dice from Chessex added 27 of 'em to my collection.

[Cthulhu]

I don't have any dice on hand, but I'm not Shaquille O'Neal, I don't think 8d20 is going to be very easy to palm, let alone throw properly.

[Poltifar]

Eh, what's the game pacing with this system? From experience, even the simplest of RPG tabletop systems can be quite slow at some points, so I cant imagine this thing doing anything but grinding to a halt at the first instant there is a need to roll dice.

[GaelicVigil]

Has anyone heard of this piece of work before, what is possibly one of the most complex tabletop gaming systems ever?

There appear to be three playable races, each with their own character sheets. The following three images are the only explanation needed for this game. Warning: huge images following. Linked due to sheer size.

Xylen
Kalei
Sil

The only real differences between the three are the centers of the sheets.

 

Somebody needs to tell these guys that there are things called "computers" that exist nowadays to do this stuff for you...sheesh....

Seriously, RPGs that are this complex need to be outlawed as a method of torture under the Geneva Convention.

[Duke 2.0]

 It isn't even that complex, they just use inefficient artsy systems to show stats and skills instead of plopping down a number and a few words. You could get away with a sheet using a fourth of the area.

[Neonivek]

I am not sure if "Complex" is the best way to describe a Pen and Paper RPG.

I've heard of games that take hours, even if you memorised the system, to make a character and I am not sure those are really all that great.

Kinda wish there were more places to play then OpenRPG... Then maybe I could find the game right for me.

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, I skimmed the quickstart rules, a lot of that stuff is just sound and fury.  You put a dot on the grids and that determines how many dice you roll for various checks.

That being said, it still doesn't sound very good.

[GaelicVigil]

It isn't even that complex, they just use inefficient artsy systems to show stats and skills instead of plopping down a number and a few words. You could get away with a sheet using a fourth of the area.

I guess you're right.  I counted up each entity field and compared it to D&D 3.5 and found that they were not too far apart (estimated):

Eoris = 170
3.5 = 110

Still, I have no idea how the mechanics actually work.  I guess I've gotten accustomed to lite RPGs lately as I've been playing them a lot lately.  Even the changes Pathfinder brought to D&D 3.5 were negligible at best and the rules were only a tiny bit easier to work with.  Even grapple is still a pain.

The funny thing I've always found with complex RPGs is that they always give you the disclaimer at the beginning of the book that goes something like this:  "The rules in this book are just a guideline, we encourage you to make the game your own and remove or change them whenever you want to".  Makes me think, "So why the F did I buy this book in the first place??!!"

In my experience I've just found that complex RPGs are just a lot less fun.  Sure, the deep rules sound great on paper, but in practice the game turns into constant rules-lawyering and the pace slows down to a crawl.  I ran a Pathfinder game a few months ago online with a group I found on EnWorld.  After about 6 weeks of playing every Thursday night I had to cancel the game simply because it wasn't fun at all.  The game was constantly bogging down because of nit-picking with rules, and a single combat encounter would last an entire session of 2 hours.

I've been running a Warrior, Rogue and Mage campaign lately and have been having some of the most fun I've ever had in a P&P game.  The rules are extremely easy to learn and customize, and I've been able to focus storytelling.  I highly recommend it.

[Neonivek]

Makes me think, "So why the F did I buy this book in the first place??!!"

So you wouldn't have to make an entirely new rule system.

Honestly by all means change things. I dislike it when DMs use books like dogma and never deviate from it. "No you couldn't stop the trap because you don't have any trap disabling skills", "But it should have worked", "No! the book says that you need to roll a disable device and you fail", "But all I did was place a large object infront of it", "And disabled the device", "Can't I just destroy it?", "No because traps don't have health", "But can't you just use the material component's page? I mean I can just attack it from outside its range", "No you can't because you need to enter its square to attack it", "But it is only 5 feet to the left", "But it is along a wall", "Dang it!"

Anyhow from what I see the game isn't that complicated... just bulky.

[Mephisto]

The funny thing I've always found with complex RPGs is that they always give you the disclaimer at the beginning of the book that goes something like this:  "The rules in this book are just a guideline, we encourage you to make the game your own and remove or change them whenever you want to".

I would very much like some names. I know RIFTS and FATAL could fall into that category, but the former isn't very good (or so I've heard) and the latter is so mindfarking... I don't even know... that it ceases to be funny.

[GaelicVigil]

Makes me think, "So why the F did I buy this book in the first place??!!"

So you wouldn't have to make an entirely new rule system.

I'm not talking about making a new rule system, I'm talking about walking into my local gaming store, reading the chapter on attribute resolution, and walking out.  Or even better, just peruse a game's forums or wiki and learn the attribute resolution system there.  I've saved myself at least $30.

Most RPGs, at their heart and core, boil down to how they process encounter resolution.  Everything else is pure fluff and optional if you think about it.  The rules for advanced combat, experience gain, skills, talents/feats, magic, and on and on could simply be exchanged for a xDx + related attribute + modifiers and GM discretion.  When it comes right down to it, it's so much easier to forgo all the extra grind-my-game-to-a-halt rules and just roll a xDx + related attribute + modifiers, set some house rules, throw in my own setting, and profit.

I won't argue that some of these systems are a fun read with beautiful art and nice flavor text.  But I find that the investment on return for heavy crunch games is simply not worth it for the fun factor.  Reading a cool sounding system is much different than playing one.