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Author Topic: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order  (Read 1266 times)

Makbeth

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Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« on: October 25, 2010, 02:57:36 am »

So my legendary gemsetter was out doing who knows what when an ambush occurred.  He was right next to the fort entrance and there was a wall between him and the goblins.  They had no line of sight to him and if he had gone down to the burrow like he was ordered to, they never would have seen him.  They also would have been trapped if they followed him.

However, he ran directly away from the goblins he couldn't see, out into the open, and fled to the hills where my soldiers had no chance to reach him in time.  He became a pincushion.

Then, I interrupted the kill order I had set so the one soldier ahead of everyone else could wait for the other eight to catch up.  The guy in the lead stopped and waited, but the rest of the squad, 30 tiles behind him and closing, suddenly ran back to the fort entrance.  I issued the kill order again.  They kept heading back.  Canceled it and made another move order.  They kept heading back.  I checked to see if they were drinking, eating, or sleeping.  It said they were either moving to station or heading to kill the goblins they were running away from. 

The guy who was actually following orders correctly was overrun and killed, and DF soldiers being the whiniest bunch of drama queens in all fiction, they are now pissed off that they let their friend die.  1)  You're in the military.  Things in the military die sometimes.  Deal with it instead of injuring other soldiers or the people you're supposed to protect.  Either of those actions is exactly in opposition to the job you're currently failing to do.  2)  The reason he is dead is you.  If you want to avenge him, there is an open magma pit very close to the barracks you're heading back to.

Thank god I spammed cage traps, because the military is still barely worth having. 

Could one of the upcoming release cycles please be wholly devoted to fixing issues like these?  The new abundance of sites is kinda nice, but I'd really rather have an army that does a better job of intercepting the enemy than cage traps.  Ideally squad behavior would be something more like in a real-time strategy game, where units immediately follow orders and do not stop until told to do otherwise, and also head in a direction that is not the opposite of towards their current objective.

And if it's caused by something like "the soldiers need to go back to base to get new orders", considering that a day lasts a few seconds in this game, I'm pretty sure it's an acceptable break from reality to have soldiers immediately follow new orders.
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Diso Faintpuzzles was born in 120.  Although accounts vary it is universally agreed that Diso was chosen by fate as the vanguard of destiny.

In the early spring of 143 Diso began wandering the wilds.

In the early spring of 143 Diso starved to death in the Horn of Striking.

Eugenitor

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2010, 04:25:10 am »

The military AI is incredibly screwy. It's not heading back to base or anything like that, it's just... screwy. Try not to use kill orders if you can help it; usually only move orders get anything done.
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bluephoenix

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2010, 04:40:14 am »

For me the military is behaving just fine, they move where I want them, they get the equiptment I am telling them to take (except one gauntlet sometimes), they go kill what I tell them to even if hungry or thirsty and just now my military saved 4 fisher dwarves from an ambush thanks to the kill command.
Thanks to the hospital my dwarves are able to fight again after a couple broken bones.

I think it might be a bit luck-based on how decent the military is behaving for some people.
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Quietust

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2010, 10:36:01 am »

The one thing I've noticed is that military dwarves seem to be utterly incapable of interrupting an order - if you station them outside, then change your mind 5 seconds later (before they get a chance to leave the barracks) and order them back inside, they will still run all the way outside before finally turning around and going back inside.
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Salabasama

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2010, 10:53:32 am »

I really wish that civilians who get scared would run toward the fortress, rather than simply 'away' with no regard to where they are going.  I suppose it could be done by having a scared dwarf path toward the meeting hall or something like that.
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Makbeth

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2010, 12:33:50 pm »

Yeah, the towards safety vs. away from harm thing is a problem.  I have no idea how you would get AI to make that choice correctly.  If all else fails, I'm pretty sure that having "go to the burrow" override "OMG Goblin RUN!" would lead to better, or at least more predictable, results.  If you know your dwarves are going to run for the fort, you can at least do some fancy engineering to make that the safest course of action for them.
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Diso Faintpuzzles was born in 120.  Although accounts vary it is universally agreed that Diso was chosen by fate as the vanguard of destiny.

In the early spring of 143 Diso began wandering the wilds.

In the early spring of 143 Diso starved to death in the Horn of Striking.

Leperous

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 01:23:05 pm »

This bug has existed since the military was overhauled (April); Toady seems to think that adding more monsters that your military cannot kill is a much more important priority.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=481

Simplest solution I found was to make doors, and lock them once the military is on the same side of them as the attackers. You can also try un-assigning the defining armor/weapon rack.

It always seemed to be a problem that was exacerbated by certain types of creatures (particularly forgotten beasts) and large z-level differences.
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thvaz

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2010, 01:59:26 pm »

This bug has existed since the military was overhauled (April); Toady seems to think that adding more monsters that your military cannot kill is a much more important priority.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=481

I am glad he is adding features instead of fixing bugs that probably will be broken later, as this game is far from finished.This specific bug seldom occurs, and there are workarounds.

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Traece

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2010, 02:07:33 pm »

Usually I setup defense burrows and defensive alerts for my military units. If you tell them to defend a burrow, they will defend the burrow. That hasn't failed me yet and in fact has resulted in the death of titans at the hands of my accomplished axedwarves! Ordering and canceling never seems to yield much of an issue either for me, but maybe I should pay more attention.

Last I checked they're updating Adventure Mode, which is another aspect of Dwarf Fortress. Not just adding monsters that your military can't kill. But they're doing that too. :)
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In adventure mode I killed a Hydra within fifteen minutes, and then was mortally wounded by Carp while swimming in a river.

eerr

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Re: Soldiers turn around and head back in middle of kill order
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2010, 02:49:53 pm »

This may depend on Dwarf personalities too.


yo urist, you are one brave sonofabitch.

Go fight that beast alone


Hell yea.
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