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[Vehudur]

If it's "steam power" then it's already unrealistic. Forcing steam through pipes as some sort of simple trap, maybe, but steam power? Not quite.

Let's look at this realistically.

Coal Power Plant = burning coal to heat water to generate steam to turn a turbine.
Nuclear Power Plant = nuclear fission to heat water to generate steam to turn a turbine.
Solar Plant = using sunlight to heat water to generate steam to turn a turbine
Hydroelectric Plant = using water to turn a turbine.
Wind Plant = using wind to turn a turbine.

Clearly, steam power != steam punk

Any questions?

Also...

Geothermal power plant = drill deep holes (so deep in fact some have actually struck !!magma!!), pump water down some and up others to turn it to steam and turn a turbine.

[Fanklok]

Those are the fevered dreams of madmen it's impossible for steam to power anything.

[G-Flex]

If it's "steam power" then it's already unrealistic. Forcing steam through pipes as some sort of simple trap, maybe, but steam power? Not quite.

Let's look at this realistically.

Coal Power Plant = burning coal to heat water to generate steam to turn a turbine.
Nuclear Power Plant = nuclear fission to heat water to generate steam to turn a turbine.
Solar Plant = using sunlight to heat water to generate steam to turn a turbine
Hydroelectric Plant = using water to turn a turbine.
Wind Plant = using wind to turn a turbine.

Clearly, steam power != steam punk

Any questions?

Er, right, and steam power is also out of the question, and is unrealistic. That was my point; that steam power in general is unrealistic and has been stated as out-of-bounds by Toady, not just "steampunk".

[Fayrik]

Actually, I can kinda see dwarves using steam power. I'm not gunna fight odds over it, but all you'd need is a steam creator - which believe we can make in the game - and a water wheel suspended above it.
In a tunnel of course.

Besides, I feel we need some new ways to make steam, and control it (regardless of power state). Else how are we going to make Dwarven Saunas?

[G-Flex]

To get any sort of significant steam power, you have to deal with constant, sealed high-pressure areas, requiring a decent understand of how gases/fluids work and very good manufacturing technique/materials.

[dogstile]

And you think dwarves can't construct high pressure tech? We've made orbital magma cannons for christ cake (typo left in for hilarity)

[breadbocks]

To get any sort of significant steam power, you have to deal with constant, sealed high-pressure areas, requiring a decent understand of how gases/fluids work and very good manufacturing technique/materials.

Umm... no. You need steam, a pipe, and a wheel to make power from steam. I see no tech within a mile of that, nevermind hi-tech.

[G-Flex]

To get any sort of significant steam power, you have to deal with constant, sealed high-pressure areas, requiring a decent understand of how gases/fluids work and very good manufacturing technique/materials.

Umm... no. You need steam, a pipe, and a wheel to make power from steam. I see no tech within a mile of that, nevermind hi-tech.

How much power do you expect to get out of that, exactly? Also, I mentally pictured that kind of set-up in my head and realized that you would actually completely fuck it over by doing that, because the steam would be exerting pressure both ways on the wheel: Clockwise on one sail (or whatever you want to call it) and counter-clockwise on the other one.

A lot of technology seems a hell of a lot easier than it actually is. This is one of those cases. If you don't actually know a lot about the subject involved, you aren't going to know what factors to take into account. This is how people come up with ideas for perpetual motion on a weekly basis.

Also, inside a pipe you're not going to get a sealed environment if there's a spinning wheel in there. Well, I guess you could if you contrive a sort of curvature that the vanes could follow, but that would require extremely precise engineering to actually be airtight.


Also: Pipes are "tech", and so are water-wheels. They don't grow out of the ground, and aren't perfect. You need metallurgical skill, manufacturing skill, knowledge of the principles of how those things actually work, and so forth. Something as simple as a wheel/axle is technology. You can't just wish really hard and have perfectly airtight, frictionless, accurately-built-within-1-nanometer pipe-and-wheel assembly.

[Ieb]

The only sort of steam-power I want are steam-traps.

[breadbocks]

G, gearing systems can do wonders.

It may be rather inefficient, but it would get some power. The point is, making steam spin turbines is nowhere near the rocket science you make it out to be.

[G-Flex]

G, gearing systems can do wonders.

It may be rather inefficient, but it would get some power. The point is, making steam spin turbines is nowhere near the rocket science you make it out to be.

Even assuming perfect and airtight construction, the steam would exert equal pressure in opposite directions on the wheel, producing no net force. Can I make it more simple than that? It doesn't matter what kind of "gearing system" you use. Steam doesn't flow in a single direction like water.

[breadbocks]

I couldn't have more palms on my face while still typing if I tried.

Look. Steam rises. If you let it just rise, you can put the turbine back some, and have it push straight up. Humans use steam in exactly this way.

[Namfuak]

I couldn't have more palms on my face while still typing if I tried.

Look. Steam rises. If you let it just rise, you can put the turbine back some, and have it push straight up. Humans use steam in exactly this way.

You're right.  You can have steam simply rise.  And maybe if you had an adamantite water wheel you could turn it with the amount of force that creates.

This is all assuming that it wouldn't, as the other person has been repeating, exert force on both sides of the wheel.

[iceball3]

To assist in any further misconceptions, all you need is the wheel to be offset a bit and have the pipe be sealed around it, so the steam turns the padfle on only one side due to momentum pushing it foward instead of sideways(mostly).
Example:

Code: [Select]

_________________________
              Ι
__________  --o--  ______
           \  Ι    /
            \ ___/
It would be more bunched up than that, but it's how it works. Sort of like putting only one part of the wheel of a waterwheel instead of the whole thing.

[G-Flex]

To assist in any further misconceptions, all you need is the wheel to be offset a bit and have the pipe be sealed around it, so the steam turns the padfle on only one side due to momentum pushing it foward instead of sideways(mostly).
Example:

Code: [Select]

_________________________
              Ι
__________  --o--  ______
           \  Ι    /
            \ ___/
It would be more bunched up than that, but it's how it works. Sort of like putting only one part of the wheel of a waterwheel instead of the whole thing.

The upper and lefthand blades on the wheel would both see pretty much the same fluid pressure from the steam. That's the problem. And if the wheel did turn clockwise a little bit, the steam would just leak through the bottom to the bottom-most wheel and exert similar pressure on that as well, in addition to steam escaping through empty space near the top (doing no useful work).

This is ignoring the problem of manufacturing concerns. You need to be able to produce extremely precise, tight-fitting parts that can withstand high temperature and pressure (and in a moist environment).