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[Zathras]

You originally suspected me because Criptfeind was buddying up to me. Don't misrepresent the facts. Whatever your reptilian brain said about me and the fucking goddamn plan came after you concluded that Criptfeind, being the scum that he was, was buddying up to me. Funny how that turned out.

Your memory is at fault. I denounced your plan as scummy even before you formally proposed it[1]. Then Criptfeind agreed with your scummy plan, which I considered buddying, plus he dropped other scumtells, so I voted him[2]. Then he backed down, and you insisted on it even in the face of evidence, so I voted you[3]. I voted him at the end of day because it was the only scummy-person lynch possible (voting you would result in a no-lynch)[4]. It was always about the anti-town plan. The time I was voting him was for going along with it, plus his other scumtells.

And about the fucking goddamn plan you've got your panties in a bunch about: there was no point talking about it today because there's no further advantage to be gained from organizing the support. The scum school cannot be conclusively determined with only two schools and five apprentices remaining.

You said yesterday that there would be a point, regardless: "investigatory benefits"[5]. Do you say now that there were none? Because there clearly were, just not the ones you hoped. Plus you didn't just "not talk about it", you failed to even answer a simple question: did you support red yesterday, as you said you would? It's kinda important, ain't it? Did you?

About your second point: the scum school cannot be conclusively determined, but a very good educated guess can be made based on who chose what colours, their stated reasons to do so, and subsequent behaviour.

I'm OK with the idea that "one of Jim and Zathras is scum"; so if the rest of you guys think I'm full of shit, vote me and support Red. If you don't, vote him and support White.

BAD IDEA.
Proposing an either/or lynch at lylo (and in general) is a terrific way to lose games. It focuses the game on two individuals and easily lets the scum blend into the background.

I agree it's not the best idea, but it's the best one I have at the moment, so I go with it. I think your plan, your attitude about it, your colour selection, and your actions since are scummy enough to vote the shit out of you. If others agree, let's hang you. If they think I'm scum lying, then let them hang me. We'll discuss it further in either case (day ends 4 RL days from now, plenty of time to hash it out). But I'm explicitly not binding the discussion to those two options, as I ask for alternatives, and I even propose another one below that you take the time to shit on as well.

...or I'm OK with other ideas as far as securing a scum lynch today. I'll support a lynch of Org if the rest of you guys think he's scum. Unfortunately, of the rest, I'm not getting enough of a reading to be ready to vote them just yet.

Now this is interesting.
So you only support an Org lynch if everybody else feels up to it? A mercenary attitude to your vote like this is incredibly suspicious.
Why are you making the condition of your vote if everybody else thinks he's scum? What do you think? It's incredibly scummy to say you're not sure about Org but also to support his lynch.

Duh. I support his lynch if others do because I can't hang him with just my vote. Obvious. I'm OK with him hanging, and if enough others are as well, I'll move my vote from you to him. Otherwise it stays on you. I'm not as sure about his scummitude as I am of yours, but close enough to support a lynch, sure; especially since others would provide reasons when they vote, with which I may agree (if I don't, the plan changes), or I may have missed.

There's three scum out there. I think I've been able to smoke out only one (you), and get smells of scum from another (Org). Whoever has most support at end of day will hang, and my vote will be on one of these two... unless someone else comes and becomes even scummier -- I'm pretty sure at least one of Eduren, IronyOwl & Person is scum, but I don't know which (since almost half the players are scum by now, it's not a particularly adventurous guess, but there you go).

I can't hang anyone on my vote alone, so consensus must be built. My scum list has two items on it for now, and I'll vote for whoever is most productive to vote at day end. That's as it should be, yes?

[Zathras]

So I was your most suspicious target yesterday? Why did you wait until today to do anything about it?

I didn't. I FoS'd and prodded you.

So? If I was the scummiest person yesterday why didn't you VOTE me. You were just casting suspicion and not pushing or scumhunting. That's why you're scum. [...] As you stated, I was looking like the scummiest person in the game to you. Don't you think that that warrants a vote? Don't you think that a vote on your scumpick would have been more useful than getting the answer to a question that didn't really matter?

THAT, right there ^^, is the scumtell I have on you.

In my opinion, "you think I'm scummy, but you're not voting me" is not a terribly strong scumtell; not enough to build a case on. However, in this case it's different: IronyOwl, if you had voted Eduren by end of day one, he would have been lynched -- It was a multi-way tie until I dropped the last vote on Criptfeind. Not voting your scumpick because you're busy elsewhere, sure, but not casting the hanging vote on him at the end of the day, letting it go to no-lynch instead? That would mean you were lying about him being sooo scummy to you yesterday. Liars are scum.

On the other hand, Eduren, Irony didn't say you were his "scummiest" or "scumpick" for day one. He said you voted him for questionable reasons, that you were lurking, and listed your four D1 posts.[1]. That "scummiest" and the "not voting your scumpick" scumtell you are basing your case on? Your words. All a figment of your imagination. Or lies. Liars are scum.

Crap. One of you is scum, but I don't know which.    8-/

[Eduren]

He may not have used those words, but it definitely seems to be the case

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You weren't doing anything yesterday. You were content to throw around FoSes and weren't actually trying to find scum. Who were you suspicious of yesterday? It can't be Mr.Person, he was just an RV. It couldn't be Cript, because you didn't feel like voting him. So who was it?

This is amusing, coming from you. You had a grand total of four posts yesterday. They were, in order:

-Answering and asking an RV question
-Voting me for voting Person
-Claim you're voting me for being useless (WARNING: Irony may apply)
-Request an extension

But to answer your question:

-Criptfeind was acting strangely. He seemed to be trying to dodge or not understand my questions.
-Mr.Person was lurking and never answered my followup question to his RV answer; he popped up mostly to poke Criptfeind.
-Eduren voted me for voting his scumbuddy, despite both the Person(heh) I was voting and himself lurking more and scumhunting less than I was.
-Jim had an oddly Cabal feel to him- controlling and reasonable. On the other hand, his plan had some potential, and Cabal isn't even the right game for this, so that could just be the image I associate him with.
-Zathras seemed oddly adamant, to the point of saying false things and changing his story a bit, not to carry out Jim's plan, despite the potential for gathering information.

So I was your most suspicious target yesterday? Why did you wait until today to do anything about it?

I didn't. I FoS'd and prodded you.

In the first, he answers the question by voting me. In the second, he doesn't deny that I was.

But if I wasn't his scumpick yesterday, that begs the question, who was? I highly doubt that it was Mr.Person, because he didn't really push him. And if it was Criptfeind, then Irony would have had no reason at all not to vote him.

[Zathras]

He may not have used those words, but it definitely seems to be the case
[...]
In the first, he answers the question by voting me. In the second, he doesn't deny that I was.

But if I wasn't his scumpick yesterday, that begs the question, who was? I highly doubt that it was Mr.Person, because he didn't really push him. And if it was Criptfeind, then Irony would have had no reason at all not to vote him.

Oh, I agree. But in the first he votes you on day two; nothing there about his day one scum suspicions. In the second, you put words in his mouth that he didn't bother to refute. Hardly enough to build a case on, yes? Especially since "you're not voting your scummiest" isn't valid, since he, you know, is voting you by then, and it doesn't address the day one stuff either.

As for day one, I think both of you were utterly useless, but you were worse. You lurked horribly and when you came you didn't do anything. Irony at least pressed Cript and Person some, but not enough to get anywhere. So, for day one behaviour, I'd have gone after you ("lynch all lurkers") or him ("didn't actually vote cript") equally. Cript ended up hanging after all, which was only his fault: he played a horribly scummy day one. Sad for town.

None of these actually build a day-two case, in my opinion.

What are your thoughts on Org & JetSquirrel? Both of them are lurking up a storm, and although JS has seemed townie enough to me, I may be missing something. As far as Org, I've learned to fear him when I can't hear him, though.

[Zathras]

...but Eduren does make a good point about Criptfeind. IronyOwl, why didn't you vote him? You seemed convinced enough of his scummitude, you pressed him, he responded, and dug himself deeper every time. I understand that if he's responding without having to vote him, then that's OK, up to the end of the day. Why were you still voting Person at the end of the day? You knew it would result in a no-lynch, yes? Would you have preferred a no-lynch over voting Cript? If not, why didn't you? Wasn't he scummy enough? If not, then who was?

[Jim Groovester]

Org shit.

That's all fine and well, but look at what you're saying about Org. You fear him, you can't read him, and yet, you're doing precisely jack shit about him. You're not asking him anything, you're not trying to get him out of lurking, but you're going around asking everybody else about him. And then you say you support his lynch? You don't look exceptionally credible doing these two things, and appearances are terrifyingly important.

So what is it? Is it token suspicion, that you can turn into a bus if things look bad for Org? Giving Org the barest of suspicions so that if he flips scum you can say you suspected him?

If you want him lynched, why aren't you doing anything about it?

Criptfeind shit.

Creative storytelling. Since you wrote a limerick about it the buddying was obviously part of the reason you suspected me.

It should be obvious that whatever scumtells you think Criptfeind dropped that implicate me are completely null. You seem to have completely ignored this. This is not very good scumhunting methodology.

I've also done more than just make the fucking goddamn plan as well, but you're pretty much ignoring that too. Selectively ignoring it, even. If I'm actively hunting and engaged in attacking targets and following up on them, you should be giving that consideration in addition to whatever I've done about the fucking goddamn plan.

This shit should be obvious. Forest for the trees and what not.

The fucking goddamn plan.

I don't care about this shit anymore. I don't care if people don't like my ideas but I will throw fury if I think people dismiss them without understanding them. If everybody had agreed to the plan and went along with it instead of be useless fuckers we would know what the scum school was. Whatever advantages that were given to the scum would be irrelevant to avoiding giving them again in the future. That was the ultimate point. This is a bad plan to implement as scum, because if successful, the town would know what school not to support. You would think I would have thought of this if I were scum.

It's retarded for me to answer and it's retarded for you to ask your question about who I supported or even if I was able to support anybody to begin with. If I claimed to support red last night and the scum don't doubt me, then I've just narrowed down the scum's choice of town sorcerer to two people. Great fucking job by the way. In your eternal quest to see me hang you're doing the scum's job for them.

Don't you think through this shit before you do anything?

Either/or lynch shit.

Haven't you been giving me shit all game about supporting a fucking goddamn plan? Even calling me scum for it? Isn't that the only reason you're calling me scum?

It's a retarded plan. Don't do it. See my point about doing the scum's job for them for further reference.

[Zathras]

shit.

Where, O where, would we be without your priceless foaming-at-the-mouth rhetoric. I missed you, you adorable little knuckle-dragging troll.

That was not a limerick, you dimwit. This is a limerick:


   Oh Jim, your countenance is needlessly irate,
   Your interlocutor you pointlessly berate.
         Your maledictions please stow
         in your deepest chateau.
   A cockroach would be preferable to debate.


But we'll do it anyway. Detailed answer tomorrow. Too late tonight.

[Jetsquirrel]

Or what do you think, Person? How should we proceed? Who are your top three scumpicks for now? How about you, Irony? Or Eduren & JetSquirrel? Any thoughts or useful scumpicks?

My first 3 picks for scum would be
1. Jim ( scummy plan day 1 & with defense and attack and today he is acting very aggresive in bth defense and attack)
2. Mr. person ( short answers and a little bit of lurking, jumped out on this question)'

Bullshit IronyOwl, I wasn't lurking yesterday. Show me one RL day where I didn't post. That's my definition of lurking, going a day without posting. What's yours?

3. Org ( lurky time with short answer)

And Jim why are you so aggresive afraid to get lynched scum?

I was going to argue with you, but never mind, there's no point. There's scum to catch out there and my time is wasted pointlessly bickering with a moron.

So you deny that you are no scum without much explanation there?
and there a few more questions which you avoided with text like

Why do you assume it was me?

Also, why does it matter?

I can change my vote however often and quickly I feel like so long as I have good reason. Furthermore, aggression is a town tell, not a scum tell.

You're not scared of my sudden aggression towards you? Being scared is a scum tell.

However you didn't give a good reason.

Now get back to work. I still want to see you hang and you're doing nothing to change my mind.

Then why not vote for me? ( or i must have missed some piece of text where you switch your votes again from eduren to me)


Exactly at day 2 when Zathras started to question you, you started immideatly try to divert attention to me,Eduren, Zathras or Mr.Person.

[Criptfeind]

Can I get spoiled spec? I think I have got two of the scum.

Time to be laughably rebuttled.

Edit: Oh wait, if the power roles are anything like mine then never mind.

[Jetsquirrel]

*cough* edit *cough*

[Eduren]

He may not have used those words, but it definitely seems to be the case
[...]
In the first, he answers the question by voting me. In the second, he doesn't deny that I was.

But if I wasn't his scumpick yesterday, that begs the question, who was? I highly doubt that it was Mr.Person, because he didn't really push him. And if it was Criptfeind, then Irony would have had no reason at all not to vote him.

Oh, I agree. But in the first he votes you on day two; nothing there about his day one scum suspicions. In the second, you put words in his mouth that he didn't bother to refute. Hardly enough to build a case on, yes? Especially since "you're not voting your scummiest" isn't valid, since he, you know, is voting you by then, and it doesn't address the day one stuff either.

As for day one, I think both of you were utterly useless, but you were worse. You lurked horribly and when you came you didn't do anything. Irony at least pressed Cript and Person some, but not enough to get anywhere. So, for day one behaviour, I'd have gone after you ("lynch all lurkers") or him ("didn't actually vote cript") equally. Cript ended up hanging after all, which was only his fault: he played a horribly scummy day one. Sad for town.

None of these actually build a day-two case, in my opinion.

What are your thoughts on Org & JetSquirrel? Both of them are lurking up a storm, and although JS has seemed townie enough to me, I may be missing something. As far as Org, I've learned to fear him when I can't hear him, though.

Okay,

IronyOwl: Was I the scummiest person yesterday?

[Eduren]

BULLSHIT

Were you born this stupid, or did you play too close to the power plant when you were a kid?

Your biggest reason to vote Jim is that he is defending himself and attacking others? That he is being aggressive even? Since when does aggressiveness even come close to being scummy?

Find some valid reasons to vote people (i.e. not bullshit, and not just parroting others thoughts), and vote them.

[Jetsquirrel]

BULLSHIT

Were you born this stupid, or did you play too close to the power plant when you were a kid?

Your biggest reason to vote Jim is that he is defending himself and attacking others? That he is being aggressive even? Since when does aggressiveness even come close to being scummy?

Find some valid reasons to vote people (i.e. not bullshit, and not just parroting others thoughts), and vote them.

Ok i never said Bullshit in any of my post Zathras of Jim said that, but if that quote is false then you made a error.
IF however that quote is not a mistake then i see you really like to edit posts and create fake information, so Eduren did you do that on purpose or mistake?

[Jim Groovester]

BULLSHIT

Essentially.

Or what do you think, Person? How should we proceed? Who are your top three scumpicks for now? How about you, Irony? Or Eduren & JetSquirrel? Any thoughts or useful scumpicks?

My first 3 picks for scum would be
1. Jim ( scummy plan day 1 & with defense and attack and today he is acting very aggresive in bth defense and attack)
2. Mr. person ( short answers and a little bit of lurking, jumped out on this question)'

Bullshit IronyOwl, I wasn't lurking yesterday. Show me one RL day where I didn't post. That's my definition of lurking, going a day without posting. What's yours?

3. Org ( lurky time with short answer)

Aggression is a town tell. Passivity is a scum tell. I can not be scum if I am aggressively pursuing targets and defending myself against suspicion. You have mistaken a town tell for a scum tell.

And your other two scum picks are exactly identical to things others have mentioned about them. Why are you parroting other people, particularly Zathras? Do you figure he'll turn a blind eye to you if you just agree with him? It seems to be working so far. Nice work.

And Jim why are you so aggresive afraid to get lynched scum?

This is a profoundly stupid question to ask.

I am town. There is no purpose served by my lynch except to prove that Zathras is a giant fucking moron. It is reasonable to assume that I would want to avoid my lynch. Thus I am taking steps to stop it.

Normally scumhunting like a good town would be enough but a more direct and forceful approach is required in this instance.

I was going to argue with you, but never mind, there's no point. There's scum to catch out there and my time is wasted pointlessly bickering with a moron.

So you deny that you are no scum without much explanation there?

If I am not explicitly denying that I am scum then I am implicitly denying it. Always.

and there a few more questions which you avoided with text like

Why do you assume it was me?

Also, why does it matter?

I just explained to Zathras why answering that question is a bad idea. I won't repeat it here. Not for your convenience anyway.

I can change my vote however often and quickly I feel like so long as I have good reason. Furthermore, aggression is a town tell, not a scum tell.

You're not scared of my sudden aggression towards you? Being scared is a scum tell.

However you didn't give a good reason.

I did have a good reason. I said I wanted to see you rot with a rope around your neck.

Does that seem like a good reason to you? It does to me.

Now get back to work. I still want to see you hang and you're doing nothing to change my mind.

Then why not vote for me? ( or i must have missed some piece of text where you switch your votes again from eduren to me)


Exactly at day 2 when Zathras started to question you, you started immideatly try to divert attention to me,Eduren, Zathras or Mr.Person.

I did vote for you and said I wanted to see you hang and that you're not doing anything to change my mind. Just because I changed my vote doesn't mean I stopped suspecting you.

Hint.
       Hint.

About diverting attention: Diverting attention is a complete misnomer. I was scum hunting. Since you've never done that ever you didn't realize what it was.

Since I was using my vote to pressure Eduren and now that I've gotten some good reads off of him I don't think its necessary to keep it there anymore. Unvote. Jetsquirrel, you should be lynched immediately for parroting verbatim what everybody else has said.

Eduren, can you summarize your argument against IronyOwl for me? It's a bit hard to follow.

[Jetsquirrel]

OH SHIT!! i seem to modified a few psot instead of quoting them....... since i was trying to recheck all of my post to the part where i said bullshit...