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[Zathras]

Those are all the wrong questions. Here's the right one:

Have you considered the investigatory benefits of choosing two in an organized fashion instead of just supporting randomly, especially in light of the revelation that there are three scum?

Why don't you think about that for a second, about what it will let us know tomorrow.

Get back to me when you think you have the answer.

That is an exceedingly dumb question.

a) You get no investigatory benefits because you don't know who did or didn't follow your plan -- you can't match the person to the colour choice.
b) Yes, I did consider the benefits of choosing randomly, and proved that is better for town to do that than to follow your plan.

I have shown that scum will increase in power from 33% to over 100% if people follow your idea, and that at least of the players won't, because they are scum.

Answer the question: do you still recommend that people follow your plan, or not?

[Zathras]

Edit-by-post: left "random" and "a third" out... need to preview better.

I have shown that scum will increase in power from 33% to over 100% if people follow your idea when compared to random choice, and that at least a third of the players won't, because they are scum.

Answer the question: do you still recommend that people follow your plan, or not?

[Jim Groovester]

and that at least a third of the players won't, because they are scum.

Then it will be easy to figure out which school they support because they didn't follow the plan.

You following yet?

Answer the question: do you still recommend that people follow your plan, or not?

Yes.

Are you done stroking your ego yet? It's pretty insufferable. Like webadict, 'cept he's actually smart.

[Zathras]

Answer the question: do you still recommend that people follow your plan, or not?

Yes.

Wow. Even knowing that you have a two-thirds chance of essentially losing a Town PR, and will empower scum, you still insist. Well, hopefully people don't follow your ill-conceived idea. They will make up their own minds about it.

Since you are actively insisting on a plan that is harmful to town, you are scum. Unvote.

Are you done stroking your ego yet? It's pretty insufferable. Like webadict, 'cept he's actually smart.

No, not yet. Just one bit more.

      Jim had a plan, but alas,
      his maths were far from first class.
            I still think he's scummy,
            and surely a dummy,
      and he had his head up his ass.


There. Done now, thanks.

[Jim Groovester]

What about Criptfeind?

[Zathras]

Well, he has acted scummy too, but I only have one vote, and you are the scummiest, for actively pushing a scum-friendly scheme that you know will be harmful for town.
^{Also, for mocking my limericks. 8-P}

So, unless one of your scumbuddies manages to act even scummier, you get it.

By the way, since we're on the topic: you are still voting me; do you think I'm scum, do you have other questions for me, is it just for the rhymes, or will you leave it there as ex post facto OMGUS?

[Jim Groovester]

An... ex post facto OMGUS? Doesn't that mean you're OMGUSing me? Seriously, really impressing me here with your sheer brilliance.

Arguing with you has sucked out all the air of the discussion allowing the scum to hide while you make a lot of noise for no real reason.

I don't really think you're scum but I'm spiteful and have no other targets. Why don't you go look for scum elsewhere than the people who disagree with you of being scum? That would be something actually productive you could do instead of just sitting there with that smug grin on your face.

[Zathras]

Seriously, really impressing me here with your sheer brilliance. [...] instead of just sitting there with that smug grin on your face.

Oh man, it's like you're right here looking at me! Spooky! Heheheh.


But you're right here:

Arguing with you has sucked out all the air of the discussion allowing the scum to hide[...]

Yes, I think we've exhausted the topic. I think your plan is stupid, and that you are scummy for pushing it, so I'm voting you for it. You likewise, but in reverse. People will make up their own minds, so we can leave this particular topic to rest.

So, who else out there do you think is scum? Anyone else have anything to contribute?

^{(But I'm out -- we'll keep at it tomorrow.)}

[Mr.Person]

OMGUS

It would not be a OMGUS because you were not voting me or pushing on me. In fact, the closest to a OMGUS in this game is when you voted me right after I told you to shut up.

At any rate, I don't care overmuch about people seeing what I do as OMGUS, because fuck that. I get in the game, people vote me, it happens and if they do it for a scummy reason I will vote them back.

third on bandwagon

Yeah. Because scum tend to be good at spinning things, I may not care about them attacking me if I have something to say, but giving them ammo to lynch me with so a guy will shut up, especially since that was the first time I told you too? No thanks.

Wow, just wow. Unvote, vote Criptfeind. You just claimed you don't care about how everyone will perceive you if you OMGUS, yet you refuse to be third on a bandwagon just because of how others will perceive you. It's almost as though you're saying whatever you think will get others to stop voting you and don't actually have an opinion. The fact your reason for wanting to vote Zathras is bullshit only hammers the nail in that you're scum. Seriously, you were considering voting Zathras just because he's adding a limerick into every post? How does that position make any sense?

I think that Cript is overreacting on Zathras, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's unwarranted.

I can see where Zath is coming from with his statements. I disagree, because I think that the risks involved are necessary for a successful (and fulfilling) town game. Sort of what Jim was saying.

However, he raises a few points that are at least defensible. It appears to me that Cript is just looking for reasons to vote for someone that already has a ton of votes on him. I don't really see the buddying beyond the obvious "oh God they voted the same person" argument, but that's too easy.

Care to comment, Cript?

Could you be any more passive, Jokerman? Don't want to actually attack the scummy things your scumbuddy has done, I'm assuming? Go ahead, don't state your own opinions, I don't mind finding the scum easily.

[Criptfeind]

I think your plan is stupid, and that you are scummy for pushing it, so I'm voting you for it.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I VOTED YOU AND YOU SAID I WAS OMGUSING YOU! WHAT THE HYPOCRITE!

*Cough cough*

At any rate I am losing confidence in Jim's plan. :/ I don't think I can support it anymore, it looks like he wants us to give way more info then I am conformable with and when you explained why it will not work what I was thinking of for a plan is even worse.

You just claimed you don't care about how everyone will perceive you if you OMGUS, yet you refuse to be third on a bandwagon just because of how others will perceive you.

I thought I went over this already.

I do not care what I look like IF I HAVE A VALID COMPLIANT I did not vote him at first because he had two people voting him for the minor infraction already. When He then did things later that were actually scummy I voted him.

[Mr.Person]

That doesn't make any sense, Criptfeind. If you thought the actions were scummy, you should vote him. If you didn't think they were scummy, you shouldn't of even considered voting him. You don't look at a scummy action and think "oh, but he's already got two votes" especially when both were random votes to get the ball rolling. (Well, mine was anyways).

What you're telling me is either you decided not to scumhunt or you were thinking about voting Zathras for something you don't consider to be scummy, just annoying. Both positions are scummy bullshit.

[Criptfeind]

you were thinking about voting Zathras for something you don't consider to be scummy, just annoying.

I may not lynch him for doing such but I sure as hell will vote him for it.

Hell, if there is no one else I see no reason not to lynch annoying people, but that that point there are bigger issues going on.

At any point, you are attacking me for not voting him and at the same time saying you would attack me for voting him. Sounds like a scummy trap to lynch someone for any reason to me.

[Criptfeind]

Edit: Let me rephrase that last part, because it makes very little sense to even me:

So you are saying that it is scummy that I did not vote on someone but also hypothetical scummy that I did?

What is it?

[IronyOwl]

Also at this point I will not put the third vote on Zathras but I am not against a lynch if he does not start talking as normal as he can.

I may not lynch him for doing such but I sure as hell will vote him for it.

First of all, which is it? Is rhyming a lynchable offense or not?

Secondly, do you still think he's been doing nothing but rhyming, or are you just willing to focus on him for being annoying rather than useless or scummy?

Third, you're willing to waste your vote expressing your displeasure at him, even if you're not willing to lynch him?

third on bandwagon

Yeah. Because scum tend to be good at spinning things, I may not care about them attacking me if I have something to say, but giving them ammo to lynch me with so a guy will shut up, especially since that was the first time I told you too? No thanks.

So you're concerned about your image, but only because scum will spin it into a reason to lynch you? Wouldn't doing something to give scum a chance be a good thing, because then you can see who's good at spinning things?

At any rate, I don't care overmuch about people seeing what I do as OMGUS, because fuck that. I get in the game, people vote me, it happens and if they do it for a scummy reason I will vote them back.

So... you're not concerned at all about people voting you over an OMGUS, but you don't want to be voted over bandwagoning?

Sorcerer=Power role

Town power role=Good

Scum power role=Bad

All we know is that there are three sorcerers left, the more that are town the better, thus if given the choice I would one to make sure it is on our side.

1: The scum are VERY unlikely to two power roles.

So... you know scum probably only have one sorcerer, but you'd want to be a sorcerer to make sure town got it instead of scum? I didn't mean a BYOR thing, if that's what you thought.

a) agree with Jim's proposed strategy, which seems to me to be very scum-friendly: risking outing PRs to be nightkilled, implying knowledge of others' schools, increasing power of PR, which scum would know they have and can coordinate (or cordanate?) better.

As I said, painting targets for nightkills, scum's ability to manipulate the coordination, and ability to increase the power of their own PR (which they know) by calling townies to support it. If people start lobbying for a colour, they will be either scum or nightkill target, as they can't be "doing it for a sorcerer" (your wording) without knowing their colour already, which town doesn't. Therefore it also implies, in your wording, knowledge of others' schools, which is not scum-friendly, but a scumslip by you.

I think you're confusing his proposed plan with his hypothetical sorcerer answer. Where does his support two schools plan out potential PR targets or imply knowledge of other schools?

Hi did call for a colour: red/black. He asks us to trust in his towniehood that he chose them arbitrarily and randomly. I do not trust that. He painted himself as a target by calling those two colours, and anyone else calling for others will as well, as, if you don't believe they chose them randomly, they're either a town PR (nightkill target) or scum.

So you think he's scum because he's making too much of a target of himself?


Eduren, haven't heard from you in a while. What do you think of the current Jim/Zathras debate?

[Mr.Person]

Edit: Let me rephrase that last part, because it makes very little sense to even me:

So you are saying that it is scummy that I did not vote on someone but also hypothetical scummy that I did?

What is it?

Both actions are scummy. You STILL haven't brought up a good reason that Zathras is scum and your reasoning for not voting Zathras earlier is just plain bullshit. Your defense is scummy to, by the way, since all you did was attempt to deflect back onto me without explaining why your actions were not scummy. So please, tell the court why Zathras is scummy.