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[Jetsquirrel]

yay! i win! EAT THAT JIM! but now i have a feeling that you might want to do this

with you being homer and me bart

[Eduren]

So, I counterspelled Org the first night, confirming him as the Red Sorcerer in my eyes. Too bad I couldn't deduce his alignment from that though.

[Zathras]

yay! i win! EAT THAT JIM! but now i have a feeling that you might want to do this
[...]
with you being homer and me bart

I suspect Jim has multiple targets for that.

So, I counterspelled Org the first night, confirming him as the Red Sorcerer in my eyes. Too bad I couldn't deduce his alignment from that though.

You... couldn't deduce his alignment from that?! Did you really think Town had three sorcerers, and scum was all vanilla? You should have CLAIMED THAT! And you totally did have a way to prevent being NK'd with enough supporters:

You are Eduren the White.
3 Apprentices - Santuary - For each player choose whether to include or exclude them from the Santuary.  Players not in the Santuary cannot effect those outside of the Santuary and visa versa.  Players in the Santuary can effect each other.

You should have claimed white sorcerer, gotten support, and keeping Org and everyone else in Sanctuary would prevent you from being NK'd! Crap, you could have won this almost singlehandedly!

Also, I am astounded to find out that the scum were indeed incompetent enough to not support their own school night one. Irony, for shame man, for shame. Sure, it worked in your favour in the end, but even you admit in scumchat that it was shitty play.

[Eduren]

I talked to Janus and he said that a scum sorcerer was not guaranteed. If I had been wrong in assuming that he was scum, it would have been disastrous.

[Jim Groovester]

You know, Jetsquirrel, I wasn't really all that angry or surprised about losing this game but when you gloat like that it certainly makes me want to reconsider that attitude.

But seriously, come on. You're going to lurk the whole game, and then you're gonna pull an eleventh hour mislynch? That's dirty. That's not even cool. Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft. What would happen if the scum team just voted as a block I mean come the fuck on Jim Groovester he's practically screaming that he's scum here why didn't you notice.

Zathras, all the advice I gave you through the game (sans the inflammatory insults and condescending tone) was genuine. You were tunneling like a madman, and never hold assumptions above how players are playing. And don't buddy up to noobs that agree with you, just for good measure.

[Criptfeind]

I was shocked by Zathras not being scum.

I mean look at this

Damn the rest of the town.

How can someone like that not be scum?

[Jetsquirrel]

i lurked to victory?
I'm sorry but those attempt at defending myself and attacking you? ORG however did lurk to victory

[Zathras]

I talked to Janus and he said that a scum sorcerer was not guaranteed. If I had been wrong in assuming that he was scum, it would have been disastrous.

No, it wouldn't. Worst case, if you claimed that proviso, you could have kept him confined to the sanctuary while scumhunting would work to find out the rest. Damn it, just knowing that you could be NK immune should have forced you to claim when the discussion on that was going on.

...but it doesn't matter now. Game over anyway. But yes, Janus, three scum in a nine player game was probably too much.


PPE: Jim, you're right, I fell for the buddying a second time. I kept a closer eye this time, but the advice he got over scumchat was actually good enough. Kudos Irony on that. Regarding the tunneling, by the end it really wasn't, it was the colour support numbers that made me really doubt your towniness (you did support red night one, yes? You can tell now), and the last ten minutes I had serious doubts, as it was only too clear they were playing me, but it was over by then. Still, no excuse.

[IronyOwl]

Hehehe, excellent game indeed.

Regarding not supporting, yeah, that was just... ugh. In my defense, I was far from the only one.

...the first time.


Your reasoning on the votes was good, Zath, but the fact that only 2/6 potential people assisted should have clued you in that maybe there was something going on. Sure, town really aren't sure who to support, but fully 75% of town forgetting or declining on purpose? That should have been the sign that maybe rank incompetence wasn't so uncommon after all.


I have to say though, lurking killed this game hard. My esteemed compatriots got away with murder on it, but even Eduren and Person were lurking pretty heavily- it's likely JS and Org wouldn't have been able to get away with it quite so much if they were the only ones. As it stood, when they finally did show up they were at least on par with half the players.


I'm somewhat torn on Eduren's silence. On the one hand, claiming immediately and rallying support, then partitioning the whole game between Probably Clean and Suspicious could have been handy indeed, especially if we wouldn't know which group we were in before the NK. The information that could potentially be gleaned from suddenly having no NK when you switch someone around without announcing it would be mouth watering.

On the other hand, it'd require everyone trust Eduren completely and immediately, and one slipup and he'd be gone with no solid clues as to why. I think I'd lean towards going for it, but it's definitely a tough decision.

[Jim Groovester]

i lurked to victory?
I'm sorry but those attempt at defending myself and attacking you? ORG however did lurk to victory

Even if you didn't lurk to victory eleventh hour mislynches still ain't cool.

Do you know the only other time I was lynched? Kill Webadict Now Mafia, a long fucking time ago! And since that was a bastard mod me getting lynched doesn't count.

You marred my perfect not-lynched record!

PPE: Jim, you're right, I fell for the buddying a second time. I kept a closer eye this time, but the advice he got over scumchat was actually good enough. Kudos Irony on that. Regarding the tunneling, by the end it really wasn't, it was the colour support numbers that made me really doubt your towniness (you did support red night one, yes? You can tell now), and the last ten minutes I had serious doubts, as it was only too clear they were playing me, but it was over by then. Still, no excuse.

Yes I supported Red Night 1. As if there was any doubt about that.

And it really was tunneling. If you could not imagine a scenario where I was not scum, then you were probably tunneling. If you reasoned that whatever town actions I was doing was a screen for being scum, you were probably tunneling.

The assumptions you made and held onto fed into this, probably more than anything. You need to be extremely flexible with whatever assumptions you make and match them to how people are playing, instead of suspecting people almost exclusively based off of them.

How People Play >> Foggy Support Numbers

[Jetsquirrel]

You marred my perfect not-lynched record!

is that a good or a bad thing?

and that eleventh hour lynch was orgs idea.... i got like 6 messages from him suddenly screaming to vote eduren at the last moment. my plan however was to create a stalemate and nk one guy out, because i thought that i could not convince Zathras to vote for jim instead of Org

[Jim Groovester]

That's a very bad thing!

It was a point of personal pride, that amongst all my games I have never been lynched (except for one game that didn't count).

Now what am I going to have as a point of personal pride? My reasonably accurate hunches? My wicked-ass name? My awesome avatar?

Tell me, Jetsquirrel, what, I ask you, what?

[IronyOwl]

If it's any consolation, 2/3 of that lynch was scum.

[JanusTwoface]

CRAP! I knew at the last minute those two were playing me. Damn the rest of the town to leave me alone at the last. Still, it wouldn't have happened any other way, as they would never have come together to hang Org or Irony, which were the only other choices.

In my experience, as a townie, you should basically never change your vote within the last few hours of the day.  That's when scum try to pull their gambits to lynch townies.  If anything, it should have confirmed Org and Jetsquirrel as scum.

Once again, lurking is the weapon of scum. They all did, and Org's was shameless. JS was almost as bad. I'm more strongly justified now on my belief: lynch all lurkers! Always and mercilessly! THEY BE SCUM!

If Org hadn't posted by the end of the day, he would have been mod-killed.  I'm not thrilled with his strategy, but it did work.

So, I counterspelled Org the first night, confirming him as the Red Sorcerer in my eyes. Too bad I couldn't deduce his alignment from that though.

That's completely true, but in hindsight, it probably would have good to mention somehow.  Or perhaps, PM it to someone to form a town base.

You should have claimed white sorcerer, gotten support, and keeping Org and everyone else in Sanctuary would prevent you from being NK'd! Crap, you could have won this almost singlehandedly!

Yes, that would have been an awesome strategy.  That's the main thing stopping the game from ending when there are equal scum and town.  The problem is that it only works if there are three Apprentices to support him.

Also, I am astounded to find out that the scum were indeed incompetent enough to not support their own school night one. Irony, for shame man, for shame. Sure, it worked in your favour in the end, but even you admit in scumchat that it was shitty play.

And IronyOwl didn't assist day 2 either... Jim was Org's second supporter.

i lurked to victory?
I'm sorry but those attempt at defending myself and attacking you? ORG however did lurk to victory

If I may offer a suggestion (take it with a grain of salt), you should really work on expressing yourself clearly.  I had no idea what you were saying half the game...

If it's any consolation, 2/3 of that lynch was scum.

Which is part of the problem... Townies shouldn't participate in 11th hour lynches.  Makes finding the scums job *much* easier when they do.

[Jim Groovester]

JTF, this is actually a pretty interesting mafia variant, but it suffered pretty obviously from people not sending in their assists during the day. I think people just like the idea of sending it in the night a lot more.

So I'm going to suggest a two phase night, where apprentices can send in their support, and then the sorcerers get to use their actions.

Because getting people off their asses during the day is just too much work apparently.