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Author Topic: Darklands remake is underway  (Read 56654 times)

Sowelu

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #120 on: April 04, 2011, 04:19:07 am »

I'd love to contribute some 2D art to the game when you need some, I am a giant Darklands fan.
My site
http://www.flamingpaper.com/2dgallery.html

Have to say I'm impressed!  I think your digital art style would really fit in with the other Darklands backgrounds.  This piece in particular had me thinking of the Raubritter stuff in the original game...  Yes, I will absolutely have to drop you a line when we get to that point!  With luck, it won't even be too far off.
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olemars

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #121 on: April 04, 2011, 05:37:49 am »

Ah, this. I keep meaning to get through the battlescape tiles, but whoever coded them at MPS was either high on something from a trailer park lab, or an amiga programmer.

Seems like tile extraction would most likely be more effort than is useful. It's not like they were very remarkable ingame, and what little environmental "effects" there were (like water or fire) were just simple palette index animations that are hard to emulate now. Making new ones would be easier to use for procedural map making too if that's a goal. If I understand the old maps right there were just a small number of maps for each environment that were randomly selected.

EDIT: Is there a website or something along that vein yet? And is there something else that could use a hand? I'm a nominally professional C++ programmer, but could probably handle C# if under duress.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 05:39:58 am by olemars »
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Sowelu

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #122 on: April 04, 2011, 01:09:15 pm »

Actually, I've just set up a discussion group for the project on Yahoo:  http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/nachtlander/  Hopefully it can help merge the Bay 12 and the Darklands yahoo group communities who are both interested in the remake.

While the repository is down for probably a day or so during the renaming migration, Ben is working on a battle-map editor.  So, getting the original battle map layouts is less of an issue now, and maybe even best avoided.  We're also having a discussion on just how far we want to go in using the original art...or more specifically, how we're going to manage the transition to all-new assets.  Since we'll need to make new tiles someday anyway, that might be a good first set of assets to remake.  Painful, maybe ugly, but for our budding pixel artists it's not a bad place to start.  Individual tiles are much easier than individual character spritesheets, and it's a lot less punishing if they look bad.  Better than bashing your head against a wall on a format that doesn't make any sense (but don't let me stop you if you want to keep going for some insane reason).  Plus, we can lean on screenshots for now to rip the data if worst comes to worst.

I'll see if there's any chunks of code that could use a hand.  The best thing to do if you want to help with code is to familiarize yourself with the current state of the repository.  I could see stuff like the camp/inn interface being a good thing to tackle, they're reasonably stand-alone.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 01:11:11 pm by Sowelu »
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His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

Chandos

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #123 on: April 05, 2011, 11:40:51 pm »

Man, what a thread to stumble into. You guys just made my day! I'll be looking forward to playing the remake/sequel.

I would also like to help if I can. I'm not a programmer or artist but I love writing adventures (for tabletop RPGs and MUD/MUSHes). Let me know if you think you could use help with content writing.

Cheers
C
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Sowelu

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #124 on: April 06, 2011, 04:04:44 pm »

Man, what a thread to stumble into. You guys just made my day! I'll be looking forward to playing the remake/sequel.

I would also like to help if I can. I'm not a programmer or artist but I love writing adventures (for tabletop RPGs and MUD/MUSHes). Let me know if you think you could use help with content writing.

Cheers
C

Nice to meet you, Chandos!

And that's excellent, content writing is something we could really use.  It's probably the biggest thing we need in the short term right now, in fact.  Long-term we need background artists who work in a similar style, but it's going to be hard to put out releases without encounter text.

We're dropping the original assets--staying true to the experience, near-duplicating many or most encounters (while adding new ones), but we can't keep the original text.  If you'd like to grab one of the encounters from Darklands and re-write it, that would be cool.  Just try to avoid plagiarism...  If you're rewriting the wolf encounter, for example (which I'm already working on), then you should know that it goes kinda like this:

  • Intro text:  Wolves.
  • Do you attack them, or fail to drive them off?  Text for them going after you.  Maybe hint that surrendering is not a good idea.
  • If you try to drive them off, it's an easy skill check by the person with highest WdWs in the day, or a hard check by the person with the highest WdWs at night.  Needs two text results for success at day and night.  The text should state who made the successful roll.
  • If you fought, you need results for the end of the battle:  Winning, fleeing, getting knocked out, and surrendering.  The last two are the same in this case:  It picks a random surviving party member to get eaten, and kills them.
  • Do you try to invoke a saint?  Needs success text that includes who invoked the saint.  If some saints work noticably different (IE, one is said to calm animals while another is said to drive them off), needs different text for different saints/saint types.
  • If you fail to invoke a saint, needs success text that it failed (and either include 'the wolves attack', or segue into that text as a next screen, or segue back into 'make a choice', depending).
  • Same with alchemy (success and failure, the person who attacked, the potion that was used).
  • Same with trying to outrun them (whole party uses horses, if present).
  • Oh yeah.  While it's not always easy, some of these cards need alternate text for the case where you have less than three survivors.  Did you lose the fight, and only have one survivor?  Yeah, the party doesn't look on in horror while X screams.  There's no party, it's you.  It's often okay to refer to 'the rest of the party' when there's one guy talking to a lone partner, but the party also shouldn't look on in wonderment as a single guy explains something to nobody in particular.  It's good form not to avoid something cool just for the sake of writing less cards, though.

What you shouldn't do is simply rephrase while reading the original text; since we're working to avoid copyright violations, that's just as important now as it was in middle school.  In fact I would recommend that, after exploring the encounter so you know what the options and vague roll difficulties (and relevant skills and roll types) are, you put the text away and re-write them from scratch.

Anyway, you see why we need help with this kind of thing?  At first glance, it seems like a simple encounter--wolves, and you either drive them off or you don't--but it actually needs about fifteen to twenty different blocks of text (and for cards where you can make choices, one-line descriptions for each choice).  Usually each block can get away with anywhere from a single short paragraph to two paragraphs, but it's still a big chunk of writing for each and every encounter, especially the ones that involve combat.  There's also some transcription into XML involved, but I can handle that myself for now--once I get good documentation written up, writers can do that too if they /really/ want but it's not a necessity.

It's a massive effort.  Just think of how much text there is for the Raubritters:  About the same stuff as wolves for meeting his men in the field, the same for all kinds of stuff for outside the castle, and for various ways of entering the castle, and for dealing with him in person...  Don't worry about those right now, though.  Worry about taking a small wilderness encounter and committing to get it finished.

If you want to stretch your creative muscles a bit more, we also need ideas for brand new encounters.  You should keep them mundane for now--even very minor fantasy elements need some vetting first, to keep the setting clear--but new encounters are nice.  Bounce 'em off me before you dive into writing twenty paragraphs.  If you have ideas for events that happen in a specific region of the map, that's GREAT, we're trying to add things like that.  But...ideas themselves are only so useful.  You gotta be willing to do the heavy lifting of writing, too.

If you want to get involved long-term as someone who writes multiple encounters, and can commit to it, it would be excellent to have more team members.  We're also grateful for volunteers who just want to take an encounter or two, though.

Drop by the Yahoo group mentioned a couple posts up, or email me if you've got some thoughts on things to implement, and thanks very much!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 04:11:37 pm by Sowelu »
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His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

x2yzh9

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #125 on: April 06, 2011, 04:10:24 pm »

When I start the game it immediately crashes

Also, is the remake just a combat demo at this point?

Sowelu

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #126 on: April 06, 2011, 04:17:12 pm »

When I start the game it immediately crashes

Also, is the remake just a combat demo at this point?
Do you have the .NET 4 runtime and the SDL runtime?  The download links for those should be somewhere around the download link for the game.  And it's not just that--it's also got the choose-your-own adventure style town exploration (if a little bit early and unfinished), and even a pretty darn accurate and good-looking character creation.  There's a few versions floating around right now and I'll get those all reined in once I'm not at work; one of our other programmers is doing some cool stuff with much better pathfinding etc right now, so if you do get combat working and it seems very sparse, that's because this topic has a relatively early version of that.  There's also a way to import characters from a Darklands save, but I think that might be disabled right now.  Might not make it into later versions.

Next on the agenda are fully-functional skill checks, a debug mode to skip combat and go straight to victory/defeat/surrender/flee, and a ways down the road, the world map.  That's going to be a pain, but we sure are far beyond "combat demo" at this point.

...I guess the first post needs some serious love, now.  Yeah, tonight or tomorrow I'll get some better links posted.  We're currently under active, week-to-week development, and that last posted version was back in November.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 04:19:57 pm by Sowelu »
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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

x2yzh9

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #127 on: April 06, 2011, 04:27:33 pm »

How do I uninstall the sdldotnet runtime so I can reinstall it?

Sowelu

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #128 on: April 06, 2011, 04:39:18 pm »

Shouldn't be necessary...Not sure.  Huh.
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His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

teoleo

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #129 on: July 17, 2011, 09:27:27 am »

news?
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Sowelu

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #130 on: July 17, 2011, 12:48:26 pm »

Nothing checked in for the last three months.  Largely (entirely) my fault.  Keep meaning to get crackin' on it again, but some of the basics were not well-designed and I was going to go back and re-do them.  It's a pretty deep dive that is going to take a few days of solid work.  Also my dev machine has been out of commission for a bit.

Hm, next weekend I'm busy so...I think I'll devote the weekend of the 30th to it.  Yes.  I'll put out a release at the end of this month, even if there's not much improvement that a user can see.
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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

Elven_ranger

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #131 on: October 14, 2011, 01:52:37 am »

Hm, next weekend I'm busy so...I think I'll devote the weekend of the 30th to it.  Yes.  I'll put out a release at the end of this month, even if there's not much improvement that a user can see.

Didn't quite work out?..
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Neonivek

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #132 on: October 14, 2011, 02:05:45 am »

Quote
-More balance in terms of skill gain. Some skills (Woodwise, Ride) are extremely difficult to gain, yet others (weapon skills) are extremely easy. The relative usefulness of skills might also have to be called into question, without borking the realism of anything.
-Better balance in terms of attributes. In Darklands, it's way too important that everybody in your party be extremely buff and durable (read: High Str/End is mandatory even for your priest-healer-dude). Also, the starting backgrounds (craftsman, peasant, nobility, etc.) have different starting attribute values, and lower attribute values are NEVER worth additional money or career opportunities, seeing as how you never get to actually increase attributes (with the exception of the Schrat quest).

My Overcompensation senses are tingling. Unbalance isn't always a bad thing, it can be a terrible thing but it also can be a good thing.

I am probably paranoid and given I havn't played Darklands at all, I am probably not the person who should even bring this up... So in that respect I won't elaborate further.
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getter77

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #133 on: October 14, 2011, 07:21:58 am »

I hope this is still kicking about even if at a relaxed pace given the game just came to GoG which I'd imagine will wake up the classic playerbase on top of getting new folk interested.

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/darklands
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G-Flex

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Re: Darklands remake is underway
« Reply #134 on: October 14, 2011, 08:13:16 am »

Whoa, GOG has Darklands now? Neat! I kind of wonder where the profits go, though; did they get in contact with the original developers, or what? I was never clear on that with certain games they offer.


Regarding balance in Darklands... am I the only one who finds the age-related penalties a bit too harsh? They start hitting you the moment you turn 30, and hit some of the most important stats. By the time you're 35, you already have -3 Endurance, -2 Strength, and -3 Agility. God forbid you adventure to age 45, where you have -8 Str, -6 End, -7 Agi, -1 Per, and -1 Chr. I definitely understand why the penalties are in place, but I always felt they were a little harsh, especially given the need for all characters to have high Strength and Endurance. I would personally eliminate the Age 30 penalties (or maybe limit it to Agi -1) and make the penalties beyond that at least a little less harsh.

Here are the aging penalties as exist:
Age3035404550556065
End-1(-1)-2(-3)-2(-5)-3(-8)-3(-11)-3(-14)-5(-19)-6(-25)
Str-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-2(-6)-2(-8)-3(-11)-4(-15)-6(-21)
Agl-1(-1)-2(-3)-2(-5)-2(-7)-3(-10)-3(-13)-4(-17)-4(-21)
Per-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-3(-7)-3(-10)
Int-1(-1)-2(-3)-2(-5)
Cha-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-3(-7)-3(-10)


I'd probably just reduce the earlier penalties a bit, for the most part:
Age3035404550556065
End-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-2(-6)-3(-9)-4(-13)-5(-18)-6(-24)
Str-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-2(-6)-3(-9)-5(-14)-6(-20)
Agl-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-2(-6)-3(-9)-3(-12)-4(-16)-4(-20)
Per-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-3(-7)-3(-10)
Int-1(-1)-2(-3)-2(-5)
Cha-1(-1)-1(-2)-2(-4)-3(-7)-3(-10)

Although I think the real problem here, again, is that the game overvalues Strength and Endurance.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 09:32:51 am by G-Flex »
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