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[Sowelu]

How is project going?

It's going.  No updates in the near future, but we're hammering out the direction it's going to go.  My next real task is to add user scripting, which is going to be a huge pain.  Specifically, sites that need special code and lots of other stuff like random encounter tables are going to use C# files that get compiled at runtime.  It's a very unconventional choice but I hate Lua, and Ben's on board with it (his idea actually).

Doing that...will take a while.  Quite a while.  But once it's in, the floodgates to implement basically every single site in the game are open, including long-term per-site variable tracking and stuff (so it keeps track of whether this alchemist hates you, or when the next Sabbat is going to be, etc).  All softcoded.

Ben's working on combat.  Should be following all the correct formulas with correct values now, and I think he said he was working on pathfinding.  I saw something about battle maps in the commit log, too, even though I don't think we have the graphics yet.

[G-Flex]

Specifically, sites that need special code and lots of other stuff like random encounter tables are going to use C# files that get compiled at runtime.  It's a very unconventional choice but I hate Lua, and Ben's on board with it (his idea actually).

Why not generalize this to site/encounter logic in general? Just a thought.

[Sowelu]

Specifically, sites that need special code and lots of other stuff like random encounter tables are going to use C# files that get compiled at runtime.  It's a very unconventional choice but I hate Lua, and Ben's on board with it (his idea actually).

Why not generalize this to site/encounter logic in general? Just a thought.

How do you mean?

Most of the site data is handled through some very simple but powerful XML.  It would be a massive pain to code everything in C#.  The scripting is just for stuff that's out of the XML's scope (ie, "encountering an army's chance is 0 if you're not in a region that's at war, judged by these functions, otherwise it's this probability" or "these are the options available at the shipyard, the script will look up which cities are adjacent and figure out when the boats leave")

[G-Flex]

Oh, I forgot that you were using XML for that stuff. Never mind.

User-editable, runtime-compiled C# seems sort of frightening, but I'm no expert.

[Sowelu]

It's a little frightening from a 'trust' perspective, but you'll get them all packaged with the game itself after being vetted by...whoever does the packaging.  Don't install a script from someone you wouldn't run a .exe from, basically, I'd say.

[Sowelu]

Hey guys, anyone good with game titles, or German, or German game titles?  Or with giving opinions?

We're trying to figure out a solid remake name that evokes the original feeling of Darklands without stomping on copyright.  Something that's German but sounds reasonable in English is a pretty good choice there, and those are the main things we're tossing around right now.

"Mittelalter" ("Middle Ages") and "Nachtländer" ("Night Lands") are the best we've come up with so far...I really like Nachtländer myself (with or without the umlauts), but are there any other huge major opinions on the subject?  Good, bad, other ideas?

I'll probably commit to something soon just so I can start up a seperate mailing list.

[Fayrik]

"Mittelalter" ("Middle Ages") and "Nachtländer" ("Night Lands") are the best we've come up with so far...I really like Nachtländer myself (with or without the umlauts)

I quite like Nachtländer, and I love the look of Umlauts.. But, it will probably be easier for consistency if you drop them.

Actually, that whole compile-at-run C# scripting sounds fantastic to me. Will it be possible to blacklist certain functions? And, if not, would it be wiser to have the game compile the source when the game runs rather than before hand, so you distribute the source code of scripts? (Would make it a lot easier to weed out malicious scripts, since the users themselves can read what they're running.)

[Sowelu]

Actually, that whole compile-at-run C# scripting sounds fantastic to me. Will it be possible to blacklist certain functions? And, if not, would it be wiser to have the game compile the source when the game runs rather than before hand, so you distribute the source code of scripts? (Would make it a lot easier to weed out malicious scripts, since the users themselves can read what they're running.)

I'll have to see what it would do to blacklist certain functions.  Not sure if it's possible to meaningfully sandbox this stuff, yet.  And besides...you might not necessarily want to control them too hard.  (I could see someone wanting a script that exports data to files, or that modifies graphics, or even someone crazy making a network mod.)  In general, the game scripts would be distributed in source form though, yes.  Verify them if you like.  The game maintainers would also want to verify packages as "safe", so anything you get from the official site would at least have a seal of approval.

[Fayrik]

I'll have to see what it would do to blacklist certain functions.  Not sure if it's possible to meaningfully sandbox this stuff, yet.  And besides...you might not necessarily want to control them too hard.  (I could see someone wanting a script that exports data to files, or that modifies graphics, or even someone crazy making a network mod.)  In general, the game scripts would be distributed in source form though, yes.  Verify them if you like.  The game maintainers would also want to verify packages as "safe", so anything you get from the official site would at least have a seal of approval.

The seal of approval sounds like a must.
But what I was thinking of in the whole black listing thing, was more, perhaps making sure that the game will only access files in the game's ... Say, "addon aux files folder". That way people can't go around formatting hard-drives, and such!

[Sowelu]

I'll see what I can do, but for unapproved stuff, you'll have to think of it as being precisely like installing an *executable* mod for a game.  Because...that's what it is, really.

As the XML stuff gets expanded, the list of things you'll need scripts for will decrease.  A player can easily say "I will only download add-ons that are XML only, nothing with a script", and that'll be good enough for a fair amount of stuff.

Maybe later on, Lua or similar will also be an option...I don't know though, is Lua sandboxed?  I mean, I know that World of Warcraft lets you use Lua plugins.  But if they're not sandboxed, then one of those plugins could format your machine just as easily.  But, that's just not something that tends to happen.

In any case it looks like we've locked in Nachtlander, both as the game name and as the engine itself I think.  So if someone does end up making a total conversion that takes place in 7th century China with Taoism, it'll be whatever game, running on the Nachtlander engine.  I went ahead and snagged nachtlander.com (which has no content yet), so I guess you could say that we're starting to go legit.

[G-Flex]

I'll see what I can do, but for unapproved stuff, you'll have to think of it as being precisely like installing an *executable* mod for a game.  Because...that's what it is, really.

The problem: Users without privileges (in the OS) to install and run an executable would still be able to do it. Basically, I'm worried that there could be a problem with a sort of escalation of privileges here, since this is tantamount to running arbitrary code, except another program is doing it for you. Of course, I'm not sure this would actually cause or be a problem, but it's worth considering the implications.

[neotemplar]

Posting to show my support to the cause.  Cause dos Darklands taught me what Cuirbulli was and then killed me with a village of cultists.

Best saint is the one that makes the friars tell the truth.  I loved that guy.

Lastly a small suggestion.  Add in some kind of speedup/saving for the mines and towers because they take forever in the original and always struck me as the most broken part of the game.

[G-Flex]

Travel in combat areas was pretty damn tedious, but I think that should be an easy enough thing to tweak.

[neotemplar]

Yeah if it was just the exact same game but without the combat travel tedium it would already be a massive improvement.  I hope to get slain by tatzelwurms with this version some day.

[waronmars]

I'd love to contribute some 2D art to the game when you need some, I am a giant Darklands fan.
My site
http://www.flamingpaper.com/2dgallery.html