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Author Topic: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!  (Read 5640 times)

warhammer651

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2010, 06:52:40 pm »

Darkest of days
I personally love the concept. traveling through time using a mixture of futuristic and old fashioned weaponry. Nothing is more satisfying on occasion than a one sided battle with you coming out on top. Against a regiment of civil-war era infantry by using a machine gun. Or against the Roman legions with a rocket launcher.

The problems with it: Invisible walls, Bizarre decisions (why can I only see out of one goggle of the gas mask again, unfortunate implications (Blue auras mean that those people cant be killed. No native Americans have blue auras), and just meh graphics (reality is brown for WWI i can understand. But otherwise some color would be nice), shitty method of exposition (a pair of eyes yammering at you is not very engrossing).

What they did right: Making the futuristic weapons awesome whilst not making you invulnerable with them, Mission variety (Bombing run from a zepplin? Fighting in pompeii during the eruption? a mission in a concentration camp?), getting the theme down

What I wish they did: More eras. Other than a few missions (Pompeii, the concentration camp) you mainly go back and forth between the American Civil War, WWI Eastern Front, and the various wars against the native Americans out west. I think it would be fun to go back in time to the 30 years war, or the hundred years, maybe even some missions set during feudal Japan/ China.

Bigger consequences for killing people you shouldn't kill. Basically, the more blue auras dead, the fewer upgrade points you get. make it something interesting for goodness sakes!

more color ('nuff said)

no more invisible walls. ( again, 'nuff said)
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Eugenitor

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2010, 06:58:39 pm »

MASTER OF MAGIC.  The bugs, exploits and AI made it fun to toy with but ultimately unplayable.

Are you talking about the C64 game? I hated that thing as a kid. Unless you found the right potions in the right order at the right time and didn't fight THESE monsters but fought THOSE and went HERE but not THERE... you died anyway because you'd just run out of magic and health from everything trying to kill you. There's a speedrun out on Youtube but I don't even want to know what goats he had to sacrifice to figure out how to do it.
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Akura

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2010, 07:06:13 pm »

MASTER OF MAGIC.  The bugs, exploits and AI made it fun to toy with but ultimately unplayable.

Are you talking about the C64 game? I hated that thing as a kid. Unless you found the right potions in the right order at the right time and didn't fight THESE monsters but fought THOSE and went HERE but not THERE... you died anyway because you'd just run out of magic and health from everything trying to kill you. There's a speedrun out on Youtube but I don't even want to know what goats he had to sacrifice to figure out how to do it.
I'm going to assume NOT, since well, I've never heard of a C64 game called Master of Magic, and the Microprose game is a hell of a lot more popular. I think. And I used to own a C64, until a rat chewed through the power cable.

And it was a big freaking rat. Two bite marks on the cable, both about 3/4in. long.
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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2010, 08:00:57 pm »

Darklands

This.  They cut a lot of features to make the ship date.  (Not all of them were necessarily awesome--there were going to be political struggles, revolutions, and cities changing hands, but I can't imagine the players caring about that at all.  I know the only difference I cared about between city leadership was "does the guy who pays me to squish Raubritters live in the city hall or does he live in the fortress")

Yeah, they wanted to do a follow-up taking place in... I want to say Scandinavia.

I disagree about players not caring about those features, though. I know I would, at least. You probably get the impression that you wouldn't care because you're thinking of the stuff you do in Darklands, not the stuff you'd do in that hypothetical sequel. After all, you'd care about the political situation if you can play it to your advantage, or to the advantage of some group you belong to, or to keep the prices of certain goods low/high, etc. It all depends on how well it's integrated into what the player can do.

Darklands was actually a lot less deep than it looked, IMO.  There were only so many events (even if there was like half a meg of text), and your options were pretty heavily limited.  There was a lot of grinding (How many bandits does this town have and why do they still try to mug people), and for many things you could do, it seemed like there wasn't much point.  And really...a lot of the puzzles became trivial once you saw them once or twice.  (Oh hey, this village worships St. Simon Magus, how suspicious).  Plus--

...You know what?  I had a couple paragraphs here about what it was missing and where it had room for improvement.  But talk about actually remaking stuff doesn't belong in this thread.  *scratches head*

I don't know why you'd randomly delete two paragraphs of stuff germane to discussion, but okay.

Limited options? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I can remember like a dozen different freaking ways you could take down a raubritter, or enter/leave a city. For a primarily menu-driven interface, those interactions were very varied. Most situations also allowed you to use a variety of potions/saints for help, or a number of other things. Basically, the dev team thought of most solutions that would actually make sense, and even some that really didn't. I think there were limited choices, in the sense that there just wasn't enough to do in the first place. There were a large handful of quest types, but after a while it seems repetitive and inorganic.

I agree about evil villages, though. Way too easy to tell if they were evil. It should have been more subtle.
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Sowelu

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2010, 08:05:55 pm »

I don't know why you'd randomly delete two paragraphs of stuff germane to discussion, but okay.
Because I moved it here ~~> A topic about trying out a Darklands remake, all its own. I didn't want to dump too many ideas about what I wanted in a sequel into here.
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mainiac

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2010, 08:29:35 pm »

Victoria 2...

The game has so much potential, but they should have consulted with an economist before trying make a detailed model of the entire world economy.  But the game sold decently, so hopefully Victoria 3 will have an economy that doesn't drive itself into the ground.
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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2010, 08:47:08 pm »

FATAL

/thread

No, seriously though, I'd have to say Dragon Rage for the PS2 by 3D0. I mean what's not cool about flying around as a dragon and eating shit? Bad flight mechanics, strange magic system, and wards. GOD DAMN WARDS.
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Yolan

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2010, 10:02:09 pm »

Evil Genius

A really cool concept with good art that was wrecked by basically being half finished. Stupid damn publishers.
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Neonivek

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2010, 03:54:23 am »

Evil Genius

A really cool concept with good art that was wrecked by basically being half finished. Stupid damn publishers.

Dang, forgot about that game.

Great music too, possible one of the best games released around its time in terms of overall music. Though I think it only had a few themes.
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ductape

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2010, 04:08:09 am »

MASTER OF MAGIC.  The bugs, exploits and AI made it fun to toy with but ultimately unplayable.

Are you talking about the C64 game? I hated that thing as a kid. Unless you found the right potions in the right order at the right time and didn't fight THESE monsters but fought THOSE and went HERE but not THERE... you died anyway because you'd just run out of magic and health from everything trying to kill you. There's a speedrun out on Youtube but I don't even want to know what goats he had to sacrifice to figure out how to do it.
I'm going to assume NOT, since well, I've never heard of a C64 game called Master of Magic, and the Microprose game is a hell of a lot more popular. I think. And I used to own a C64, until a rat chewed through the power cable.

And it was a big freaking rat. Two bite marks on the cable, both about 3/4in. long.

dude! is the rat OK? Or WAS it? I mean, i doubt it is still alive due to rats being short lived. BUt i gots ta knows!

Rats are docile and familial creatures. hug a rat today!
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2010, 05:15:48 am »

Two games, both on this side of the Atlantic (and Pacific, for that matter). Vangers: One for the Road, and Remember Tomorrow.

Vangers was a very unorthodox (you could even say a bit psychotic) take on the combat-trade-sim genre, with a universe so full of alien concepts (and perfectly normal concepts under ridiculous names) that it made immersion a tad too difficult. Despite that, it was, in its own way, a brilliant game with lots of innovative concepts (like realtime terrain deformation in a sandbox vehicle-based game, way ahead of its time and still not quite replicated today), and really deserves a more coherently structured and better planned sequel.

Remember Tomorrow was a 4X RTS, with smart pause. The global time would pause whenever there was combat, and whenever you went to design a ship. And time speed could be varied, too.
The game was riddled with problems, like one race having no Dreadnouts despite having them in the research tree, and the economy screen being somewhat incomprehensible when there were too many planets conquered. Despite that, it shined through with two primary things. Ship design and technology research. The ship design was quite unlike anything I've seen pretty much anywhere else, before or since. You are given an outline of the ship's hull, within which there is a grid. Into this grid you must squeeze rectangular profiles of the various components available to you, like some deranged Tetris variant. Sometimes, the biggest benefits of a new piece of technology isn't its increased power or reduced cost, but the fact that it has a slightly slimmer or a differently oriented shape, thus allowing to fit it into nooks and crannys of the ship hull where you couldn't put them previously. The Earthling Frigate is a big example, where prior to researching Neutron Generators you had to occupy the dorsal external main turret mount with a 6x6 Fusion generator, and afterwards you could power the whole thing with an array of three 6x4 Neutron Generators stuck into the ship's nose section, with plenty of space left in the aft for fuel tanks and engines, and plenty of power to put four fast-tracking blaster turrets into the main dorsal mount.
The Research system was less innovational, and could easily be improved, but I still think it's one of the best research systems made for 4X games so far. Basically, you have one huge slider to distribute available scientists between General and Applied research, four smaller sliders to determine how many scientists work on general Physics, Mathematics, Biology, and Chemistry areas, and a big list of applied science areas that you can allow or disallow to focus research into a given direction. There were no "projects", all discoveries were a side-effect of amassing sufficient knowledge in specific areas. You could see the requirements for some things if you had all required applied fields open, but the only way you could focus on specific goals was by disallowing research in unneeded branches, pooling all research power into the required areas. I thought that was a great system, which could be easily improved by adding variability to the requirement values, and introducing a few more general areas (Psychology and Ethics, for example) as well as some more complex requirement schemes. And improving the interface, the one they used was very broken.
I hope that one day there's a game that takes at least these two key aspects of Remember Tomorrow, and improves on them, finally making a space 4X game that I can really enjoy.
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Muz

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2010, 05:20:24 am »

Slaves to Armok 2. It's got a horrible UI, but a great concept, and it's got the potential to be a AAA hit if made right.

Heh, ok, fine. Temple of Elemental Evil is my pick. Bugs all over the place, very poor storyline, but the combat engine was solid. If you could combine that with say, something as simple as Avernum's storyline, I wouldn't want to put down that game.
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Siquo

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2010, 05:22:51 am »

Spore, but for obvious reasons (they're just going to screw up again) it also does NOT deserve a remake/sequel.

Evil Genius 2 would be cool, as would Master of Magic 2.

Also, Dwarf Fortress.

Fake-edit: Ah, ninja'd!
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Antioch

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2010, 05:29:58 am »

Dominions 3, great game but utterly unplayable because of the bad UI, come on how hard is it to make repeating build orders, auto search for magic sites, pathfinding so you don't have to tell the same unit 10 times where to go, waypoints (perhaps also give units the option to move on their one, they would still instantly rout in combat) and an option for which spells mages should auto cast in combat. Currently the endgame consists 90% of telling units and provinces what you already told them. When playing LE Ermor this changes to 99.5%, while this could be so easily automated.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Your Worst Game that deserves a sequel!
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2010, 05:30:44 am »

Well, Spore deserves a Spiritual Successor - as in, made by someone else under a different name.

And isn't Elemental supposed to be the successor to MoM, anyway? It's not quite MoM, but it was planned as such.
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