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Author Topic: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-  (Read 14199 times)

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2010, 03:35:17 pm »

the problem with multiplayer is that there's a lot to know if you want to play it well. Defenses, Resistances, alignments, of both your units and your opponents. Placement, shielding units. And every bit tilts the odds in your favour, but even if you do everything right you can still get screwed now and again. So its definitely for a certain type of person, but I think its enjoyable.

Also, everyone likes Colosseum because you don't need to give a damn about any of the things I just said. :P
This kind of sums up my issues with the game. Also, the one multiplayer game I did was with a couple of friends and seemed really slow. Is Colosseum a multiplayer game mode?

GlyphGryph

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2010, 08:12:20 pm »

Yeah, its multiplayer coop. A lot of people who don't like the main game still seem to enjoy it.
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Neonivek

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 09:15:27 pm »

I kinda stopped playing Wesnoth for two reasons...
1) I dislike ongoing turn based strategy games especially when dealing with return units.
and
2) DANG IT UPGRADES! Why why WHY!?!

So does Swamplings still retain its ongoing non-stop nature?
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2010, 10:45:31 pm »

What do you mean by ongoing non-stop nature? I'm not sure if I understand... do you mean the ability to recall units used in previous campaigns? It is at its core an turn based RPG, so most campaigns do work that way.

And why are upgrades... bad?

*confused*
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Neonivek

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2010, 12:18:29 am »

No no no specifically I mean.

I dislike it when turn based strategy games, especially ones that rely on returning units that can easily die, have a campaign mode that goes from one mission to the next instead of having optional side stuff.

As for the upgrades not only do I never know if I have one comming (WHY!?!) but it is tough enough keeping my units alive.

So I have to struggle loading and reloading saves trying to make sure that I win each mission with minimum losses and maximum experience or else I'll be uttarly trumped by my next opponents (though perhaps it was the campaign I was playing... If I didn't have the best of the best every map the enemy ate through me no matter how I possitioned my troops)
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yamo

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2010, 02:27:16 am »

No no no specifically I mean.

I dislike it when turn based strategy games, especially ones that rely on returning units that can easily die, have a campaign mode that goes from one mission to the next instead of having optional side stuff.

As for the upgrades not only do I never know if I have one comming (WHY!?!) but it is tough enough keeping my units alive.

So I have to struggle loading and reloading saves trying to make sure that I win each mission with minimum losses and maximum experience or else I'll be uttarly trumped by my next opponents (though perhaps it was the campaign I was playing... If I didn't have the best of the best every map the enemy ate through me no matter how I possitioned my troops)

You might like Titans of Steel Warring Suns.  The next battle is weighted(by you) just as you prefer.   The upgrades only occure when you choose.
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Neonivek

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2010, 02:30:50 am »

Don't your characters need "levels" to upgrade?
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PrimusRibbus

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2010, 02:42:40 am »

Don't your characters need "levels" to upgrade?

I'm a little confused at what you're getting at with your posts.

Characters don't need levels to upgrade, the upgrades are the levels. When you engage in combat, your unit gains 1 exp per enemy level and 8 exp per enemy level if they kill the opponent. When your unit's exp reaches the same amount as their max exp, they upgrade (or gain a small bit of hp or some such if they've advanced to the end of the upgrade tree).
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Dr.Feelgood

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2010, 09:12:14 am »

I like Wesnoth, but I can understand why some people hate. The luck factor doesn't bother me much, since I play a lot of roguelikes.  :P The only campaign I don't like is Descent into Darkness. Swamplings sounds like fun. I'll try it out. As for multi-player, I never tried it. Mainly, because I don't know how to get started.
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Neonivek

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2010, 01:19:16 am »

Replayed it I understand it a bit more.

I still sort of dislike its ongoing nature and the fact that you never know where to level up (usually I go with what still allows you to advance but you never know where a trap is)

Tried a map without loading and noticed that it is pathetically easy to get your team wiped out and most important units destroyed (It seems more like you should backup the guys you want to advance with the cannon fodder). I also noticed that thieves are quite terrible... They get double damage but I've had units that can do their own damage output with actual hp to back themselves up.

As for Swamplings I'll check it out. I cannot imagine what makes it "Good". I sort of wish Wesnoth had more variety in its mods. I keep expecting one to change the rules until I found out the rules are practically hardcoded (and mysterious despite being hardcoded the game has no editor for easy access)

My suggestions if I could give them
1) Seperate Autosaves, Replays, and saves (heck seperate them by campaigns as well). In fact this is THE suggestion I give. The rest of my suggestions is really just "add stuff even if your not going to use it".
2) Editing program for editing that isn't the map editor.
-I really want to make my own campaign but I have no idea where to start nor do I know coding NOR do I think anyone would be interested.

My Immediate response to Swamplings

Wow are these guys more racist then I think is logical.

Ok... I lost a map... because I failed to tame the bats fast enough... Why!?! they should have just thrusted you into the next map.

What is with games and nonsense losses. "You ate candy, GAME OVER!"
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 02:18:06 am by Neonivek »
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 09:34:09 am »


Quote
Ok... I lost a map... because I failed to tame the bats fast enough... Why!?! they should have just thrusted you into the next map.
The only I have, honestly, is with the timed losses - which is one of the reasons I generally like swamplings. Many of the levels don't have a time thing, and I didn't even notice most of the others that did. The exceptions are the bat training level and the "failed assassination" level - the second mostly because I spent forever fighting guys.

Quote
1) Seperate Autosaves, Replays, and saves (heck seperate them by campaigns as well). In fact this is THE suggestion I give. The rest of my suggestions is really just "add stuff even if your not going to use it".
I don't understand what you mean?

Quote
2) Editing program for editing that isn't the map editor.
I don't think this exists for any game, honestly. But I do know Wesnoth has its own exceptionally easy scripting language for building campaigns, and there are several campaigns that exist solely walk you through how to build your own campaign I haven't played them myself, so I don't know if they are any good).
Quote

I also noticed that thieves are quite terrible... They get double damage but I've had units that can do their own damage output with actual hp to back themselves up.
The great part about a thief is its high defenses, high damage (when backstabbing), and decent hp and movement across varied terrain. Also, they are one of the few chaotic human units, and occasionally the only one you have access to. This means that they deal 25% more damage while the rest of your army is dealing 25% less. And when they level up once, they get skirmisher. I've used thieves to complete a couple missions by completely ignoring the enemy units (or distracting them with cannon foddder) while my thieves slip around the sides and kill the enemy leader.

Lets compare a thief vs. a spearman. Spearman is 7-3 at 36hp, thief is 4-3 at 24. The thief usually has a 20-30% defense bonus over a spearman, putting them about equal at survivability, but making the thief a much riskier proposition. However, lets take damage output at night. Spearman do 5-15 damage. Thieves do 6-18, assuming you aren't backstabbing, at which point they do 9-27. Despite being about the same price, thieves can deal twice the amount of damage a spearman can if you've got a good awareness of situational management. At higher levels, they also have skirmisher, a nice ranged attack, and poison as well. They are still a niche unit, and best used in pairs or groups of three, but they certainly have a place.

Quote
I still sort of dislike its ongoing nature and the fact that you never know where to level up (usually I go with what still allows you to advance but you never know where a trap is)
I still don't know what you mean by this. You level up wherever you happen to be when you get enough experience (noting that you gain experience for combats equal to the level of the enemy, and additional experience for killing the enemy, amount depending on level). Unless  you mean you don't know which upgrade to take... and thats situational. Still, the upgrade screen shows all the important aspects of your options (health, attacks, special abilities, neutral/chaotic/lawful) so I don't see why it would be difficult to pick the one that best fills the niche you need.

Assuming the second interpretation is correct, I'll go a bit more into that. Generally, in single player campaigns its best to go with units that can gain another level, as higher levels are generally better. However, there are a few exceptions! First, higher level units have a higher upkeep! (upkeep is equal to level). Second, some units have special abilities that make them a lot more useful (for example, I always go with Pillagers of Goblin Knights in mainline games, even though goblin knights can gain another level, because a ranged Slow attack is incredibly useful. I also almost always go white mage because healing is awesome, and its hard to get a unit all the way to Archmage. Unless I've already got plenty of slowing units or healing units, of course, in which case I'll go the other route for diversity.
Finally, there's the leadership bonus to keep in mind. If you have an army with several strong leadership characters, it is often better to have lower level units that can be boosted by the skill. The skill boosts damage by 25% times the level difference, so if you have a lv3 leader (not uncommon), a lv3 unit will get NO bonus, while a lv2 unit will deal 25% more damage, a lv1 50%, and a lv0 75%. Usually, the higher level units are still a bit better - but they are less expendable, cost more, often end up with fewer special abilities than the short branches, and with leadership the damage increase is often not worth it.
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Dr.Feelgood

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2010, 09:35:17 am »

Replayed it I understand it a bit more.

I still sort of dislike its ongoing nature and the fact that you never know where to level up (usually I go with what still allows you to advance but you never know where a trap is)

You don't know which unit is the best choice to upgrade/promote to?

http://units.wesnoth.org/

I usually go for units that have special abilities in campaigns.

Quote
Tried a map without loading and noticed that it is pathetically easy to get your team wiped out and most important units destroyed (It seems more like you should backup the guys you want to advance with the cannon fodder). I also noticed that thieves are quite terrible... They get double damage but I've had units that can do their own damage output with actual hp to back themselves up.

Learn to protect your units better. Thieves (and other units with the backstab/charge ability) are pretty good. I mainly use them for taking out hard-to-kill targets, like leaders.

Quote
-I really want to make my own campaign but I have no idea where to start nor do I know coding NOR do I think anyone would be interested.

http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Create
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Neonivek

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2010, 06:01:35 pm »

As for the save thing

When I go to "Load" I get all my replays, Autosaves, level saves, and the saves I do myself all jumbled there throughout all the campaigns I play.

I'd love for a filter to exist so I know what the heck I am doing.

As for the Thieves I guess I was spoiled by the really nice Criminals who have the HP they lack with the same speed and around the same damage (Dang I love Footmen) and I find Calvalry to be my better Archer assasine. Also at the campaign section I am at over half the units can kill a thief in 1-2 hits.

Interesting the Create guide is outdated... I wonder if that means I can't use it.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 06:03:57 pm by Neonivek »
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Akura

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2010, 06:37:54 pm »

Don't your characters need "levels" to upgrade?

I'm a little confused at what you're getting at with your posts.

Characters don't need levels to upgrade, the upgrades are the levels. When you engage in combat, your unit gains 1 exp per enemy level and 8 exp per enemy level if they kill the opponent. When your unit's exp reaches the same amount as their max exp, they upgrade (or gain a small bit of hp or some such if they've advanced to the end of the upgrade tree).
I thought it was 8*the opponents level(4 points for a level 0), plus one point just for fighting.

Anyway, the RNG-rape can sometimes go both ways. I had a Knight be attacked by a few Walking Dead(or whatever the level 0 undead unit is), take a couple hits, kill all of them, promoted to Paladin, full heal from promoting, get attacked a whole bunch more times, not get hit at all, and one-shot every single one of them. I think that one Paladin killed about 15 Walking Dead in just one turn(I believe it was a campaign map and that particular AI was programmed to spam them), just by being attacked.

For unit upgrades, since I usually spam Horsemen and Magi(note, it's been a long time since I've played), I usually upgrade the horsies to Great Knights(Paladin for undeads) and split Magi upgrades between White Mages(can never have enough healers, and they're brutal against undead) and Red->Great. I don't bother with Silver Magi, that teleport effect isn't all that good, since my border villages are usually occupied by units trying to heal anyway.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Best Battle for Wesnoth campaign! -Swamplings-
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2010, 12:37:20 pm »

I love silver mages! Nothing like a single scout making it to the enemies keep only to summon forth 5 or 6 silver mages. :P

They're also good at holding villages and retreating if things get to dangerous to where I've got a healer safely tucked, as well as reinforcing areas that are having trouble.

But to each their own!
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