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[Azure Sepulchre]

Spade's being replaced, ragnarok's posted (although he hasn't posted near enough to satisfy me, but nonetheless he did)... yeah. I think I'll go for my main actual FoS now instead of bashing lurkers.

Unvote Spade, Vote Jetsquirrel.

I support Webadict in this statement >_>

You dang pro's and your omniscience... -_-

Stop making me feel inadequate, you monster. ;_;

[Azure Sepulchre]

Also, as an argument for getting Web into this game:

Note to all: If you don't let me in, your game dies.

[Vector]

You dang pro's and your omniscience... -_-

Stop making me feel inadequate, you monster. ;_;

Nah... what I'm saying, and what Webadict's saying, is that if you looked carefully at everything people are saying and put it together, you could figure out the game quite easily.  But you guys don't seem to know what you're looking for, and when we suggest that you should find out what you're looking for, you ignore us.

Him, rather.  It was his idea.  But it's what everyone should be doing.


Why yes, I AM the Town IC.  Glad you noticed.

[Jetsquirrel]

Unvote Spade, Vote Jetsquirrel.

is that all? nothing more to add to that?
I find it funny that Murphy votes for me and a few posts later you vote for me, scum buddy maybe?
Azure Why didn't you start attacking me earlier when i was your MAIN FoS? If i really was your main FoS then you would have attacked me much much earlier but you didnt do that so there must be a other reason? One of those reasons can be
1. I said that i knew that Ottofar was town and he turned out town magicly! Coincidence i think not i assumed from his actions that he was town.
2. The fuck im not Elegy post, Which i think is true since quite some people kept asking me stuff about elegy while they should go scumhunting and not ask questions about a person that left.
Like i said that can be 1 of the reasons you have voted for me now. But i think that your vote is scummy, you did exactly in that post what Ottofar did. VOTE because he thinks im scum.

[Murphy]

if you looked carefully at everything people are saying and put it together, you could figure out the game quite easily

Yeah, yeah. "I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."
Heh, now I know what ICs are for. To be cryptic and tell us now much we suck at this game!

But you guys don't seem to know what you're looking for

We're looking for scumtells. Are you asking what looks like a scumtell to us? Or are you asking what should we look for instead?
I'll answer both questions with one word: dunno.
Gut feeling probably. 'Cause we're.. y'know, beginners.

For some reason I regret having asked for advice already.

[Azure Sepulchre]

is that all? nothing more to add to that?

No, there isn't. I've said all I'm gonna say on the subject of you. It isn't my fault if you decide to completely ignore it. However, as for why I didn't immediately try to lynch you - I was trying to encourage the two lurkers to act. Now that that's done, I'm voting you.

However, stop claiming you knew Otto was town on the first day because he acted like you. If you had, you would've said so instead of claiming he didn't need any more votes on him. I've had enough of your bullshit.

[Mindmaker]

Does the game outcome really depend on skill that much?

Yes.  Always.

If you're scum, then maybe.
You could still win, even if your partner screwed up badly.

However I don't see how this does apply to town.

[Mindmaker]

[...]and when we suggest that you should find out what you're looking for, you ignore us.

Maybe if Webaddicts entrance would have been less arrogant, some more people would have listened to him.

[webadict]

To be fair, it's neither my game nor my job.

[Toaster]

Web: Please confirm that you want to replace, and I'll get the role PM to you if so.

[Azure Sepulchre]

Maybe if Webaddicts entrance would have been less arrogant, some more people would have listened to him.

Don't ignore sound advice just because you don't like the source. >.>

[Jetsquirrel]

However, stop claiming you knew Otto was town on the first day because he acted like you. If you had, you would've said so instead of claiming he didn't need any more votes on him. I've had enough of your bullshit.

K seriously this is starting to get repetive, all the time people are sitting here and accusing me for those 2 reasons. Well to be honest you need a lot more than 2 reasons and some very good arguments.

But now i'm going to do a trick which can be probaly reckless and stupid as hell.

but to do that i need to ask a question first.
How many scum are in this game btw?

[Azure Sepulchre]

Of course it's getting repetitive; you, against all evidence to the contrary, keep saying you knew Otto was town on day 1 when all you did day 1 was agree that the lynch should go through. You're trying to distance yourself from a lynch you wanted in the most pathetic manner possible. My vote ain't going nowhere.

Also, there's two. Read the first page; it should've told you everything you needed to know.

[Mindmaker]

Eh, I already explained how you and Jetsquirrel (presuming, for a moment, I bought into his nonsense about knowing Otto was scum) could have saved him. If I recall correctly, there were two other people with a single vote on either of them. Now, if both you and Jetsquirrel had placed your votes on one of those people, then it would have become a tied vote and no one would have been lynched. Better yet, if someone withdrew a vote on someone else in order to make sure at least someone got lynched and they flipped town, it would have all but guaranteed their position as scum. Ah, well; I'm just postulating now. >.>

Why should I have diverted attention to someone, who was way down in the list of my suspicous subjects, if the prime subjects were right in fron of me (they were Elegy/Azure back then)?
Sure it couldn't be worse, than the Ottofar lynch and we might even have gotten a lucky hit (assuming the mafia deployed some strategy I didn't think of), but still doesn't make much sense.

I still don't know why you tried to defend him, though, considering he wasn't even defending himself. Personally, I still can't even fathom how that makes someone look like town. It was tantamount to active bloody lurking.

Several times you considered the actions of players from two angles (mafia/town).
I can't see why you didn't spent a single thought to the possibility of Ottofar being town.

...I'm trying to figure out what your point here is. Are you attacking me over rying tp persuade people to lynch Otto because I thought he was scum?

...Jesus. Do you even know what he fuck town have to do?

I bloddy well know, that it isn't their job to jump at the first target that offers itself.

As for what I thought he was doing... I've explained all that before. If you haven't read it, then it's your own damn fault.

You only explained, what he did from a mafia point of view.
I haven't seen you post any other theory about him after he got killed.
Point me in the right direction, if I'm wrong.

Also, explain to me why no one else bothered to suspect me after day 2 started except you and Jetsquirrel? If I'm so obviously scum, then why hasn't everyone voted for me yet?

I guess because no beginner wants to pick a side, at least this is how I felt.

So...you think he was town because he acted too scummy.
And you spent the entire first day trying to protect him and now you admit he was acting dumb?
Then in that case you can hardly blame us for thinking he was scum right?
Either way that is a terrible reason and does give you any reason to not suspect him I mean why a townie would play so badly and get himself lynched.

The only thing I could blame you for, is for not thinking outside the box, in a game which basically requires to do so.

I also love how it seems like you know how a good scum would act considering this is your first game and you are apparently town.

That contradicts what you just said.
So I either have no idea, how scum is supposed to act, or I have a damn good idea.

Hmmm, many good points made here.  I agree.  This is suspicious, though there is definitely the possibility of Mindmaker just being a noob at the beginning.  I think he's at the top of my list of Otto's scumbuddies (assuming Otto's scum, everything changes if he's not), along with ragnarok.  The only reason I suspect him more is Otto's lynch all lurkers comments realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible for

Otto did not flip scum but that still does not change the fact that Kamina was both suspicious of you and a confirmed townie and he died during the night...coincidence eh? Or did you decide to kill the quietest of those who you thought were on to you so as to avoid suspicion?

No questions that desperately need answering here but I think it is your best interest that you think about all these points.

I bolded the part, which is important.
Whatever he wrote, was null and void at the end of day 1.

Even though he wasn't a threat, I'd agree he was a viable target. Not too involved or suspicious, but neither to passive.
You could eliminate him, leaving everyone else in the dark.

However assuming that I'm mafia, I'd get rid of Azrure right away.
That would at least lift this fatiguing stalemate.
I'd be able to talk my way out of everything else, using the Ottofar-card right and diverting suspicion on any of the other voters, as well as the lurkers.

[Vector]

if you looked carefully at everything people are saying and put it together, you could figure out the game quite easily

Yeah, yeah. "I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."
Heh, now I know what ICs are for. To be cryptic and tell us now much we suck at this game!

I'm sorry, honey-baby.  Should I have named the scumteam for you?  I know!  Next time I'll tell you that you don't have a prayer at winning, because you're too damned stupid and lazy to go find out what's what.

I don't think you're stupid and lazy.

I think that this is a hard game to learn.  I had a hard time learning it, and no matter what anyone told me about how to play, it didn't matter--because I had to find out how to play myself.  It's like learning social skills in general, you know?  You have to pay attention.  People can outline basic principles, but they can't just give you a manual to read and leave you with a solid understanding.

You have to do the legwork, just like everyone else.

We're looking for scumtells. Are you asking what looks like a scumtell to us? Or are you asking what should we look for instead?
I'll answer both questions with one word: dunno.
Gut feeling probably. 'Cause we're.. y'know, beginners.

For some reason I regret having asked for advice already.

I'm asking you what you think you're looking for, yes.  What is your profile of a scumbag?  If you don't have any idea, then read a completed game or two.  I suggest Beginner's Mafia I.  It's pretty obvious in its development.

Blame us all you want.  I'm trying to help, here, and if you don't want to play along, then you don't have to--but as Webadict said, this is not my job.  If you want another IC, ask for another IC.  Right now, though, I'm what you have... so take it or leave it.

However I don't see how this does apply to town.

You use skill to find the scum and make them slip.  Apply pressure.  Be powerful.  This isn't a game where the scum are picking off the townies like sheep, and the scum control the game.  You allow them to control the game.  You have to take back control and hunt those scum.  Make them scared of you.

Maybe if Webaddicts entrance would have been less arrogant, some more people would have listened to him.

We can always blame our own failures on other people's problems.  Yes, Webby is very, very arrogant.  That is his problem.  He is also very, very good at this game.  Not listening to him is your problem.