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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XVII - It all ends in flames...  (Read 57115 times)

Mindmaker

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death
« Reply #315 on: November 02, 2010, 03:37:56 pm »

Fuck elegy man, IM NOT HIM. 

I never said that.

See this is the minus of getting replaced because your precessor may have fucked up everything.

So now he "fucked up"?
Didin't you rate him somewhere between "average" and "quite good"?

Please elaborate, why you change your mind every couple of posts.
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Azure Sepulchre

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death
« Reply #316 on: November 02, 2010, 07:58:30 pm »

Are you kidding me?
What the hell was I trying to do all day long?
I ceartainly did deliver a lot of theories, asked a lot of questions and gave reasons, why the whole thing with Ottofar being scum was rubbish.
You really can't blame me, that the only people responding to this posts were the ones, which I directly adressed.
How am I supposed to save someone, who has 3+ votes on him, alone?
All I can do is trying to see the situation from another angle, from my angle, to be exact.
If nobody does express interest to the walls of text I wrote, how should I know they're not sharing you beliefs?

Eh, I already explained how you and Jetsquirrel (presuming, for a moment, I bought into his nonsense about knowing Otto was scum) could have saved him. If I recall correctly, there were two other people with a single vote on either of them. Now, if both you and Jetsquirrel had placed your votes on one of those people, then it would have become a tied vote and no one would have been lynched. Better yet, if someone withdrew a vote on someone else in order to make sure at least someone got lynched and they flipped town, it would have all but guaranteed their position as scum. Ah, well; I'm just postulating now. >.>

I still don't know why you tried to defend him, though, considering he wasn't even defending himself. Personally, I still can't even fathom how that makes someone look like town. It was tantamount to active bloody lurking.

If you vote, without providing a good reason, its useless. People will not care, and even find you suspicious.
If you vote, provide a good reason, but other peple simply ignore you, it's still useless.
A townie is not a one-man-army, you know?

That's not necessarily how every game is played. If a good reason is provided for a vote and it is nonetheless ignored, that just means you're playing with shitty town who can't see the writing on the wall. Not much you can do about that, but it has little bearing on the power of a vote. Just means town is full of lurkers/people who don't much care which way the game goes. >.>

Your pitiful attempt to ridicule me is noted, but ignored.

Ahahahahaa... aha... hmm. You're funny. :)

Don't ask questions, where you already know the answer.

Hmm? Oh, no; you just missed the point of the question. I was quite annoyed after trawling through Jet's big ol' postful of bollocks and was just venting my frustration at your mixture of self-satisfied smugness over arguing against the Otto lynch and your emo attitude towards town future. I will admit the whole thing was rhetorical, but I was still annoyed.

I doubt you haven't looked at it from a scum point of view.

If you have two people, voting on someone, who in the end turns out to be town, then those two players will most likely become the new prime suspects.
However if you manage to convince other players, to follow you example, the blame is shared and you've made yourself more that enough room to argue, who the "real" scum is.
So yes, this is another possible use of further questioning.

...I'm trying to figure out what your point here is. Are you attacking me over rying tp persuade people to lynch Otto because I thought he was scum?

...Jesus. Do you even know what he fuck town have to do?

It's actually quite simple.
Why would a member of the mafia act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one.
You can answer me this, Azure.

What tactic did he employ?
How was it supposed to gain him anything?

You appear to be under the presumption the Mafioso are criminal masterminds with a hand in every decision town makes, when in reality they're just as human as anyone else. Just as easily as they can play tactics, they can make mistakes and they can fuck up. Perhaps Otto had simply resigned himself to a lynch, perhaps he couldn't think of how to argue back, perhaps he was just crap scum. Hell, if scum were to play perfectly, how do you think town would be able to catch them? The only way we can really catch them is by waiting for them to make scumslips, to make mistakes, to answer an important question too quickly or too slowly. By watching voting patterns, reading through the arguments; in other words, by playing the damn game.

As for what I thought he was doing... I've explained all that before. If you haven't read it, then it's your own damn fault.

And I never was sure he was, in fact, a townie. I gave that possibility about 70%. So yeah, it was a gamble.
The way you both behaved, only reinforced me in my beliefs.

Sooo... you're really gonna try and tell me you found Otto's silence to be a towntell? You're really gonna try and say the fact that I gave him every chance I could throughout the day to let him change my mind was a scumtell?

Huh. Right. Whatever you say.

Well for once you and Azure, for reasons already posted and now seeing you working together against me. Why is no one else bothered by me if I'm so obviously scum?

Hmph. I see what you're trying to do. You're trying to orchestrate a pair-up between me and Flintus. You asked us each separate questions earlier today, and now that we're responding to them and offering questions of our own back you're trying to claim we're teaming up on you.

Also, explain to me why no one else bothered to suspect me after day 2 started except you and Jetsquirrel? If I'm so obviously scum, then why hasn't everyone voted for me yet? Fuck you and your scummy attempt to make it look like we're ganging up on you when you can't be assed to answer questions handed back to you. You're no victim.

On a final note:

Fuck elegy man, IM NOT HIM. I'm a other being i got a different brain a other way of thinking. See this is the minus of getting replaced because your precessor may have fucked up everything.

Heh... hehahahahahahahaa... hah...

You're either very clever scum, Jet, or you're a shared account between, like, five people with none of you ever checking the others posts. How you can contradict yourself this many times, this easily... wow. Just wow. You're Phoenix Wright's wet dream.

Ragnarok's probably getting kicked for being crap, so I'll put my vote on Spade until he says something worth saying. Assuming he can stop being lurky, you can bet your ass I'll be lynching you instead, Jet.
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Flintus10

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day One: The Mafia of Tewby Vale
« Reply #317 on: November 02, 2010, 08:04:43 pm »

Mindmaker Do you have any justified reason to think Otto was at least a likely town player?
It's actually quite simple.
Why would a member of the mafia act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one.
You can answer me this, Azure.

So...you think he was town because he acted too scummy.
And you spent the entire first day trying to protect him and now you admit he was acting dumb?
Then in that case you can hardly blame us for thinking he was scum right?
 Either way that is a terrible reason and does give you any reason to not suspect him I mean why a townie would play so badly and get himself lynched.
I also love how it seems like you know how a good scum would act considering this is your first game and you are apparently town.

However I have to admit, that the answers are there, even if they are all extremly narrow minded.
Sorry about that, Flintus.
God just before giving me a bunch of extremely narrow minded answers you state this, and you also just had a crack at Azure for his “Pitiful attempt to ridicule you”.
And I never was sure he was, in fact, a townie. I gave that possibility about 70%. So yeah, it was a gamble.
The way you both behaved, only reinforced me in my beliefs.
Based on your answer I find it absolutely ridiculous that you could possibly find Ottofar 70% likely to be town for the simple reason that he played so badly.
And if you are indeed town then who are your prime suspects?
Well for once you and Azure, for reasons already posted and now seeing you working together against me. Why is no one else bothered by me if I'm so obviously scum?
Well we have two lurkers who do not want to post anything. Jet-squirrel who you yourself have said can’t seem to decide anything and Murphy just seems to be passively aggressively prodding everyone and we have to assume that if you are scum then at least one of the others players is mafia right?
ALSO

Hmmm, many good points made here.  I agree.  This is suspicious, though there is definitely the possibility of Mindmaker just being a noob at the beginning.  I think he's at the top of my list of Otto's scumbuddies (assuming Otto's scum, everything changes if he's not), along with ragnarok.  The only reason I suspect him more is Otto's lynch all lurkers comments realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible for
Otto did not flip scum but that still does not change the fact that Kamina was both suspicious of you and a confirmed townie and he died during the night...coincidence eh? Or did you decide to kill the quietest of those who you thought were on to you so as to avoid suspicion?

No questions that desperately  need answering here but I think it is your best interest that you think about all these points.
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Toaster

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death
« Reply #318 on: November 02, 2010, 08:21:38 pm »

Spade and Ragnarok have been prodded again. They are up for forced replace unless they post before I find replacements.

I won't have non-participation ruin my games.

If either are replaced, there will be a mod-extension.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

ragnarok97071

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sorry for not doing stuff, stuff happened. Nothing to say, really. Sad that we're not doing so well.
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Flintus10

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If stuff happened you could have said.

Either way if you are trying to say you will be playing from now on then read through some posts and actually post something
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Toaster

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #321 on: November 02, 2010, 09:23:15 pm »

Ragnarok has returned.  Still looking for replacement for Spade unless he posts again.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Murphy

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #322 on: November 02, 2010, 11:22:56 pm »

I'm sorry for not posting enough substantial thoughts. I'm just at a loss.
Maybe we need an extension again.
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Azure Sepulchre

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #323 on: November 02, 2010, 11:33:22 pm »

Mmm, I agree. Extension.

Also, guys: give Web your list. It doesn't have to be comprehensive, and it's not like it'll hurt our chances. >.>
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Murphy

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #324 on: November 03, 2010, 12:26:58 am »

It's actually quite simple.
Why would a member of the mafia act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one.
As Flintus already said, why would a townie act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one, huh?

I'll answer Webadict's question, seeing as he insists on it.
Quote
So, please, while you're playing, just list out what it is you think you're looking for, and I'll help point you guys in the right direction. This will also help scum by identifying some startling easy catches on your part.
You're asking what we're looking for?
Well, for every person, I'm looking for a plausible scenario of how their words and actions justify as townie's/mafia's words and actions. If I can only come up with a non-plausible or overcomplicated scenario for a person, I consider them scummy/non-scummy. Unfortunately I think I'll have to abandon this tactic because it becomes too difficult to keep everything in mind after a week of posting and mutual accusations.

Furthermore, I'll withdraw my earlier suspicions against Azure. I was suspecting him because I've come up with a plausible scenario of how scum-Azure could make it all like it turned out. However, I've realized that just like Ottofar's bad play wouldn't indicate him as a townie (to anyone but Mindmaker), Azure's very active play does not necessarily make him mafia.

My top suspect is now Jetsquirrel, if only for inconsistence of his answers. Also, I'll repeat my questions:
Jetsquirrel, you've seen Otto act like you did sometime ago and, based on that, concluded that he's a townie.
1) Why that? People are different. You've even used this as an argument yourself:
Quote from: Jetsquirrel
Fuck elegy man, IM NOT HIM. I'm a other being i got a different brain a other way of thinking.
so you barely had a real reason to be sure about Otto's identity.
2) If you were so sure he was a townie, why didn't you share your thoughts before Day 1 had ended? Especially suspicious is that you did so after he was lynched.

My secondary suspects would be Spade and Ragnarok. Too little cooperation.
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Jetsquirrel

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #325 on: November 03, 2010, 01:06:58 am »

Quote
So now he "fucked up"?
Didin't you rate him somewhere between "average" and "quite good"?

Please elaborate, why you change your mind every couple of posts.

what nononononono, i never said he fucked up but people now think all the time that im Elegy which i am not i replaced him both physicly speaking and mentally.

Quote
2) If you were so sure he was a townie, why didn't you share your thoughts before Day 1 had ended? Especially suspicious is that you did so after he was lynched.

i could but lets now do this, suppose you knew that he was a townie (almost sure) then what would you do to save him with +3 votes on his head? The answer is not much since the scum would convince the other people that voting ottofar is the best choice!

Mindmaker

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #326 on: November 03, 2010, 01:16:29 am »

I agree on the extension .
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Flintus10

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day One: The Mafia of Tewby Vale
« Reply #327 on: November 03, 2010, 01:18:42 am »

I can trust my gut. And I think you're too defensive. You should use more time to hunt scum, and prove yourself town that way, rather than claiming I have no evidence.

This, just THIS. Gut feeling arguments ARE the lowest possible argument that can be made in mafia games, this also indicates you want to attack the player without anything at all. But since you all cracked Ottofar, and got 3 votes on him i don't see any reason that my 4rth vote remains on him. Except ofcourse his mindless assault on Elegy ( now me)Unvote Ottofar

Jetsquirrel: What do you think of the situation? Do you find anyone suspicious?


So about here Jet did you think Ottofar was town when you made this quote?

And why do you think he was town, a reason other than "He played like me when I was town once" Because it is fairly certain that Ottofar played town terribly.
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Jetsquirrel

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #328 on: November 03, 2010, 01:21:25 am »

This is a begginer game aye? He played like me when i play my 3rd mafia game i think and i also had no jackshit what was going on. and i just knew it unless you will accuse me of being the cop.

Murphy

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XVII - Day Two: A picture of Death [One replacement needed!]
« Reply #329 on: November 03, 2010, 02:17:50 am »

Quote
2) If you were so sure he was a townie, why didn't you share your thoughts before Day 1 had ended? Especially suspicious is that you did so after he was lynched.

i could but lets now do this, suppose you knew that he was a townie (almost sure) then what would you do to save him with +3 votes on his head? The answer is not much since the scum would convince the other people that voting ottofar is the best choice!
Er, I wasn't asking why didn't you save him. I was asking why didn't you elaborate on your thoughts. You only made a short remark on how he is broken anyway. During day 2 you did reveal a bit more, you now said:
Quote
Because i knew he was a townie, he acted like me when he broke

Were you afraid of drawing suspicion? To think about it now, it's kinda justified, seeing as Mindmaker did elaborate and is now being pressed about that. But a good townie should elaborate anyway, especially when asked to do that. And you were asked repeatedly before the night.

Regarding your unvote of Ottofar I'll say this:
Of course, if I replaced someone, it would be only natural for me to call my vote back as a first action, then study the thread and think who to vote for. But you stated a different reason. You implied that you were familiar with the thread already.

I'm very interested in hearing what Spade and Ragnarok have to say about it.
Also, an advice from Town IC would be appreciated.
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