Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MaxTheFox]

In the context of what we are talking, that like saying that vigilantism is good because it dealt with insert example that affected you personally.

Yes. Yes it is. The authorities are doing jack shit so it's the only way unfortunately. It is too late to solve anything diplomatically in America or Russia.

[Il Palazzo]

I sometimes wonder what would happen if you somehow hooked up with martinuzz. Would your children grow up to be, like, really angry.

[dragdeler]

Nah martinuzz gets indignate very much along the lines of our geopolitical alliance, I don't think that's the same as flirting with violence.

Something like violence bad but necessary if ratified, can only be carried out by sanctioned agents.
vs
What you're going to wait for help from them?! Help yourself or you will be lost.

[MaxTheFox]

I'd prefer if they could be reasoned with of course, but I kinda lost hope at this point. And I'm no longer really wanting to kill them. But people must, at the very least, protest more.

[McTraveller]

I find it troubling that there’s a tendency for people the world over to hyperbolize efforts to discourage certain behaviors as also being an effort to kill those that practice such behaviors.

Often opponents of an idea really are just opposed to the idea and don’t want to eliminate people. Is this the core of radicalization, where people stretch a philosophical threat into an existential one?

[MaxTheFox]

I think it's inertia from when I was actually murderous.

[Frumple]

Often opponents of an idea really are just opposed to the idea and don’t want to eliminate people. Is this the core of radicalization, where people stretch a philosophical threat into an existential one?

I mean, it's because people aren't idiots and are capable of pattern recognition. The anti-abortion crowd is entirely happy to walk alongside murderous terrorists, the transphobes are entirely willing to see trans folk dead, crippled, and generally immiserated, there was a bloody coup attempt just a couple years ago, so on and so forth. This is not just a philosophical threat. Just because the fuckers are doing the antisemite dance where they say shit just to say shit doesn't mean the rest of us have to buy it.

There's legislation trying to get passed in florida right now that would make it legal to fucking kidnap children on the suspicion of their custodial parent being okay with gender nonconforming behavior. There's legislation that's passed in other states that functionally ban trans folk from being in any public space, and worse trying to get through. We're not goddamn blind, mate. These folks aren't just opposed to an idea, they want to see a portion of our population outright destroyed.

[McTraveller]

Sorry I guess my point is getting lost - I'm pondering the concept of "if it's OK to 'outlaw' some ideas, like 'slavery is ok', or 'white supremacy is bad' - even though those things can be entrenched in and even define a culture - what are the factors that make that type of cultural extermination acceptable and even desirable, versus things like saying other types of ideas should be kept."

That is, it's not the simple of act of "destroying" a culture or political view that is "evil", it's the type of culture being destroyed that makes it "evil."

Then it gets down to - is it possible to have an objective (not sentimental) criteria for evaluating, say, laws like those to which you are referring.  I mean I feel like you that they are terrible laws - but is it just my feeling? Or is there something fundamental that this is based on? I mean it's not laws of physics.  Does it really all boil down to pragmatism? Or is there something more, stemming from the religious for example?

Basically I'm not taking it for granted that my view is correct.

And as much as I like to ponder these things...at the end of the day does it really matter, or really is it just "hey you know what, this person here is feeling threatened (even if I don't like their political views or lifestyle or favorite sports team or brand of car they drive), I can do something about, so I should do something about it."

[MaxTheFox]

I still don't really buy the slippery slope argument tbh.

[lemon10]

Then it gets down to - is it possible to have an objective (not sentimental) criteria for evaluating, say, laws like those to which you are referring.  I mean I feel like you that they are terrible laws - but is it just my feeling? Or is there something fundamental that this is based on? I mean it's not laws of physics.  Does it really all boil down to pragmatism? Or is there something more, stemming from the religious for example?

There is no objective basis for laws at all, at their most basic laws are always a product of the culture that made them.

To a large degree I would say that hypocrisy is a core part of the human experience. To say that what you believe and what you think is right is more important then what others think is right.
Everyone believes in justice to some degree, just as everyone thinks justice should align with their morals.
---
I do feel some things are "objectively" morally bad (eg. slavery) and that I am not willing to tolerate it.
Because I (like everyone else) am a little hypocritical and think that my views are better then those of the societes that embraced slavery.

[Mathel]

The only thing about good and evil all cultures will agree on is, that it is evil to harm your own. What exactly constitutes "harm" and "your own", varies between cultures and even with time.
Also, those considered evil by a culture will generally stop being of that culture's own.

So, what makes a culture itself evil?
I'd say it is making such laws, that people can't choose to obey them and are as such automatically considered evil and not protected by them. This can be because it is physically or psychologically impossible, or because it would do harm to them if they did.

[dragdeler]

It's actually really fucking simple, mirror neurons work, language doesn't, culture doesn't either. The little voice in your head is trained behaviour, mirror neurons are innate. Basta. The longer the excuse the more my eyes roll.

[jipehog]

In the context of what we are talking, that like saying that vigilantism is good because it dealt with insert example that affected you personally.

Yes. Yes it is. The authorities are doing jack shit so it's the only way unfortunately. It is too late to solve anything diplomatically in America or Russia.

I am glad. Engaging with people can take a lot of time, its much better to have certainty in the superiority of your beliefs and conviction these should be impressed onto others. Better 100 innocent persons should suffer witch hunts online than that one guilty person that annoy us should go free. And did you see the storming of the Capitol, how the hell these sneaky bastards managed to get ahead of us! Look at Putin, now here is person who understand how to solve things.

[hector13]

Jesus Christ jipehog, the “I’m a morally superior being” schtick wears thin enough without you being a passive aggressive troll on top of it.

[jipehog]

Too much ?   

I admit i am not subtle, but overall I am just pushing using age old arguments and projecting their behaviors on their opponents.