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[wierd]

Dont tell the german authorities about dwarf fortress and the puppy meat factories.

[pisskop]

Dont tell the german authorities about dwarf fortress and the puppy meat factories.

You mean necrobacon

[wierd]

Puppies are useful to assign as guards and such though. Can't do that with pigs.

[pisskop]

A while ago, LW did an experiement with the muscle-increasing nature of necromancy.

Essentially chain a necromancer in a glass cell, drop/slaughter livestock outside his box, let him reanimate the animal, and re-kill it before it rots.  Then butcher for increased gains.


Puppies are useful, to me, for assigning to miners and webgatherers and the like, civilians or para-military who regularly go into the wilds.  They will eat the attac(s/er) while your valuable dwarf gets away.

Dogs have always been used both as work animals and as expendable force in the real world.  Not a surprise theyd be used as such in DF.

[pikachu17]

Dont tell the german authorities about dwarf fortress and the puppy meat factories.

Oops.

A while ago, LW did an experiement with the muscle-increasing nature of necromancy.

Essentially chain a necromancer in a glass cell, drop/slaughter livestock outside his box, let him reanimate the animal, and re-kill it before it rots.  Then butcher for increased gains.


Puppies are useful, to me, for assigning to miners and webgatherers and the like, civilians or para-military who regularly go into the wilds.  They will eat the attac(s/er) while your valuable dwarf gets away.

Dogs have always been used both as work animals and as expendable force in the real world.  Not a surprise theyd be used as such in DF.

How did I not think of bodyguard wardogs?

[Cyroth]

Well, to be fair, most actors, enemies and NPCs you saw in video games up until then were pretty obviously static, stupid and unthinking things.
Now this game suddenly has adorable Norns that reproduce, can learn to talk and make decisions based on previous experiences (no matter how primitive it was based on currend tech) and Oh My God So They're Basically Alive.
It was a hot topic for a few months just how "alive" these creatures really are.

Dont tell the german authorities about dwarf fortress and the puppy meat factories.

Would probably better not to do that. They're still complaining on a semi-regular basis about how brutal "all those video games" are.
It started with Doom 2, got really entrenched because of Counterstrike and has been ongoing ever since.

[Eschar]

So if you wrote a program that prints "you hit the innocent civilian in the head and the severed part sails off in an arc" 5000 times whenever you hit a button, you now have a weapon of mass murder? Neat. Remind me of this next time I look at the "weaponize a thing" thread.

[Rolan7]

Sure, virtual constructs aren't people so killing them isn't evil.  Unironically.

However...  Doing so on particularly convincing constructs might - yes, wiggle word, might - have a bad influence on one's behavior.

I'm mostly speaking from my own discomfort from taking certain "evil" actions in video games, and the oddly real guilt I felt afterwards - a guilt which fades with repetition.  I'm only wondering if there's some crossfeed.  If that virtual construct made me hesitate before, and later I don't, have my instincts in regards to real people changed?
Even a little.

That said, I've only encountered that from doing harm to particularly well-written characters.  Your average goon is merely a game mechanic.

[Enemy post]

I think my favorite "evil" moment in a video game was when I realized I could satisfy Zoo Tycoon scenario objectives demanding a certain average happiness by using T. rexes and sharks to execute the least happy guests.

[pisskop]

In Civ 4, when I realized I could nuke the world and vote myself President of Everything Forever with the UN Council.

[Mathel]

EDIT: What we're really talking about with real-world sanctions would be outlawing imaginary violence. If you imagine yourself killing someone, the model of the entity you're killing in your imagination is far more detailed than the model of entities in Dwarf Fortress. Your brain is a far more powerful simulation device after all. So we should ban thinking about killing or cruelty then, because by doing so we create simulations of the victims in our minds, and it's cruel to have the simulations go through that. So the crime of Dwarf Fortress would be that it allows you to create simulated beings in your own mind, which then suffer and die, so that would be banned not because of the suffering of the creatures actually "in" your PC, but because it creates simulated suffering in your own brain. And then we'd have to effectively ban anything that mentions suffering whatsoever.

Voy: Random Thoughts
The Aliens of the Week have a law against exactly that. Violent thoughts are forbidden. The punishment is having your "violent engrams"(whatever they are) removed.


More thougths on killing in DF (or any other game) being considered murder by RL law.
If killing in a game is murder, what would deleting a save be? It instantly removes the state of all NPCs in that save.
Or for that matter saving and never loading it again?

If a single kill is murder, would these actions not count as genocide?

Edit on evil moment:
Slaughtering a bunch of guards in the Imperial city as the Gray Fox in Oblivion for killing a Thieves Guild memeber. Sure, it was not as massive murder as what you did, but it is my favorite.

[Kagus]

Favorite evil

I'm not sure if it's my all-time favorite, but discovering chemical warfare in Black and White was certainly up there.

[George_Chickens]

I saw somebody propose that gamers should be held accountable for in-game crimes such as murder and theft in "particularly realistic games, such as Dwarf Fortress". I knew that person for a while so they're not a troll. But, like, we're not even close to the level of realism, even in DF, where we could consider NPCs to be alive and in possession of rights. I, for example, use DF as an anger outlet a lot. Why should we enact nonsensical laws like that, and how would we enforce them?

Not this shit again. The difference between the most complex DF creature and the least complex single celled bacteria may as well be comparing a microscopic spec of dust to the entire Milky Way, respectively. The moral panic I've heard some people have over DF is just crazy, I hope it never grows out of its niche and becomes a problem for Toady.

Speaking of evil moments, I have a few favourites. The most recent one was a game of Victoria 2 as Persia. My army was battered and broken and I was dying slowly because I was in the UK's failing sphere. A massive communist revolution popped up and I couldn't defeat it. As it turns out, communists were popular with under one percent of the population, and much of the rest of the game was crushing several 60k stacks of liberal rebels at a time until, even with the game's casualty limit being around 20%, I had killed well over a million of my own citizens.

The most satisfying thing was seeing police state as an invention pop up and watching existing stacks fade away slowly, slowly, going from 60k to 20k and then to nothing. Even in the uncivilized nations I had conquered.

[Reelya]

I'm mostly speaking from my own discomfort from taking certain "evil" actions in video games, and the oddly real guilt I felt afterwards

Yeah, I decided not to murder any of the little girls for their little girl juice in Bioshock for example. No matter how many superpowers you get. Hell, it's more fun if the game is harder anyway, so why would i want to do something evil that makes the game easier?

I might have done it once just to see the animation then immediately reloaded the game though. That kind of thing would be more effective if you don't get to reload the game.

[King Zultan]

I always remember throwing overboard all the passengers that constantly puked allover the place and complained in Cruise Ship Tycoon.