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[Yoink]

Oh hell naw. Everyone, except reactionaries deserves a platform.
People thinking otherwise have fucked the internet up enough already.

Fixed that for you.
[/quote]So, not even folks with extreme views in general, just the ones who aren't on your side? This depends on which definition of  "reactionary" you're going with, of course.
Also I find it highly amusing that you even managed to break the quotes.



Edit:

Yeah, much easier to just make up what people say themselves instead of reading what they say, isn't it

I seem to remember that having been his MO for a long time now, heh.

[Rolan7]

I eventually had a falling out with the same irc after we had a fight over me wanting them to stop overtly wishing death and beatups on polito-trolls (the person in question was that gay conservative with I think a greek- or Italian-sounding name, can't remember what it was exactly, who used to go around campuses harassing trans people (the one who was very quickly dropped by the media when it turned out he was a paedophile or something)

Complete pacifism in the face of murderous armed mobs is foolish, but Antifa still has 0 kills.  People like Alex Jones are getting people killed with their words, and the system isn't holding them responsible.  Murder obviously isn't the answer (which is why the left isn't using it, despite the crocodile tears), but *all* laws are enforced by violence, and what they're doing should be illegal.  Usually it IS illegal, but nobody's enforcing it.

Where did anyone say anything about "complete pacifism"?

Ah sorry, I wasn't arguing directly against you.  Your position (best I can see?) was that people shouldn't *wish* death and violence on people, and I vaguely agree.  It's not very concrete, but it's a nice idea.

Instead I made an argument that the threat of violence is already used to prevent crimes from happening.  All governments do it.  It's tragic and regrettable, but often necessary.

[CABL]

What are we calling right-wing idpol? Isn't that white supremacist stuff? Seems like people are always calling that out.

There's a reason why "The Party of a God-fearing Christian" used to be a meme. Hell, Reps and other reactionary parties have always tried to persuade the lowest of white men were still better than the best of colored men. Martin Luther King has quoted such a phenomenon, and I've seen it in my own country, where it might be not a race-focused issue, but it basically can be summed up as, "Vote for Putin/UR, and he'll keep you safe from the evil NATO/EU."

Spoiler: Full quote (click to show/hide)

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Also, I'm pretty sure a lot of "Not-Nazis" were very angry about Wolfenstein 2 and it's "anti-white agenda"*. It even featured a black woman in a major role, which only fed the reactionary rage further.

* With the whole message of the game basically being, "Nazis are bad".

[Tack]

Oh hell naw. Everyone, except reactionaries deserves a platform.
People thinking otherwise have fucked the internet up enough already.

Fixed that for you.

Also I find it highly amusing that you even managed to break the quotes.

C'mon, be a bro and FTFTFYFT

I'm personally starting to have my views eroded. I used to be very firmly in the camp of 'a right to burn the flag' and 'everyone has a say'.
But it's mostly the hong kong stuff which has messed me up a bit. It's like, there's democratic protesters attacking and silencing dissenters, and I go 'hey, if you're fighting for freedom of speech maybe don't infringe on the speech of those against'.

But I guess that's it. People who fight against freedom of press and freedom of speech will shut that down if they win. Which means that once they win, there will never again be the debate- especially in a modern world where humans are so much more easy to corral. So I guess for me it comes down to 'if you're willing to let the other side talk, you should be able to say whatever you want. Just hope to be louder or more convincing.'

"Reactionaries" is always a hot potato.

[TamerVirus]

Political opinions are like assholes.
Everyone has one
But not everyone needs to see it

[Reelya]

Also, I'm pretty sure a lot of "Not-Nazis" were very angry about Wolfenstein 2 and it's "anti-white agenda"*. It even featured a black woman in a major role, which only fed the reactionary rage further.

* With the whole message of the game basically being, "Nazis are bad".

Well, how many people was that, actually? I looked into some articles and the go-to example was some screencaps of 4-Chan threads. Probably like 3 Neo-Nazi anons posting 500 posts each making it look like a crowd of people.

Also there was a criticism, that I can see the validity of. One slogan tweeted for the game was something like "Make America Nazi-free again". Which is fine, except that it's clearly a play on Trump's slogan, so basically all Republicans might read that as the games devs calling the entire Republican base, i.e. half the population of the USA, Nazis. You can't just rework one party's campaign slogan from the most recent election into a Nazi reference, and if people get upset by that you say "you must be a closet Nazi if that upsets you". It's clearly disingenuous.

Consider if some did the same thing with Obama's slogan: Nazis You Can Believe in, instead of Change You Can Believe In. If you would be offended by that as an Obama Supporter, it's not because you're offended that it's calling out Nazis, you're offended because it's calling you a Nazi.

[TD1]

Guy at work: "f***ing Tories don't want 16 year olds to vote"
Me: "Hah, yea. I see where they're coming from, though. 16 is a bit young."
[Conversation continues for like 5 minutes, me being completely polite and saying nothing incendiary; pretty much my go-to. Then suddenly...]
Guy at work: You're just as bad as your brother. Your parents have taken control of your mind. Your argument is stupid, so are you, and you haven't presented any data to support what you've said. What you've said is crap and just opinion."
Me: "That's no way to speak to someone. I'm not going to talk to you any more."
Guy at work: "See, you can't say anything, you lose and I win."

*I walk away, disbelieving.*



Anyway, a nice real-life example of the TamerVirus Hypothesis.

[CABL]

Well, how many people was that, actually? I looked into some articles and the go-to example was some screencaps of 4-Chan threads. Probably like 3 Neo-Nazi anons posting 500 posts each making it look like a crowd of people.

Pretty sure the Youtube comments section on the trailer was full of the "they targeted white people" and "why can't we kill commies instead" kind of deal. Also, 3 Neo-Nazis or not, the rage was strong and loud enough that I've pirated it to see what "anti-white agenda" was there.

Also, "Make America Nazi-Free Again" doesn't prove any points. If the Republicans really are anti-Nazi, they wouldn't feel like they're the ones who are being targeted. They're free to read it as "Republicans are Nazis", but like I said, it proves nothing.

[Reelya]

Also, "Make America Nazi-Free Again" doesn't prove any points. If the Republicans really are anti-Nazi, they wouldn't feel like they're the ones who are being targeted.

seriously, they clearly ripped off their party slogan and made it to be about Nazis. How could they not think that they're the targets?

Like I said, they didn't do "Nazis we can believe in" did they, they only used one side's slogan.

[scriver]

I eventually had a falling out with the same irc after we had a fight over me wanting them to stop overtly wishing death and beatups on polito-trolls (the person in question was that gay conservative with I think a greek- or Italian-sounding name, can't remember what it was exactly, who used to go around campuses harassing trans people (the one who was very quickly dropped by the media when it turned out he was a paedophile or something)

Complete pacifism in the face of murderous armed mobs is foolish, but Antifa still has 0 kills.  People like Alex Jones are getting people killed with their words, and the system isn't holding them responsible.  Murder obviously isn't the answer (which is why the left isn't using it, despite the crocodile tears), but *all* laws are enforced by violence, and what they're doing should be illegal.  Usually it IS illegal, but nobody's enforcing it.

Where did anyone say anything about "complete pacifism"?

Ah sorry, I wasn't arguing directly against you.  Your position (best I can see?) was that people shouldn't *wish* death and violence on people, and I vaguely agree.  It's not very concrete, but it's a nice idea.

No, my position is that I don't want to see that kind of talk where I come socialise and relax. If they want to talk like that then they can go make their own #deaththreatsandshit irc server. I didn't want it on the #bay12lowerboards server.

Instead I made an argument that the threat of violence is already used to prevent crimes from happening.  All governments do it.  It's tragic and regrettable, but often necessary.

Which has what to do with anything?

[Jopax]

Today I learned that my family was in possesion of a wermacht monkeywrench, a tool I occasionally played with when I was a kid. Apparently there was a small force occupying my mothers village back in WW2 and her grandfather traded some schnapps for the wrench since tools of any kind were fairly rare back then. No idea where the wrench is right now, but seeing as it lasted so long while being regularly used I wouldn't be suprised it's still around, buried in a toolbox somewhere.

[CABL]

Also, "Make America Nazi-Free Again" doesn't prove any points. If the Republicans really are anti-Nazi, they wouldn't feel like they're the ones who are being targeted.

seriously, they clearly ripped off their party slogan and made it to be about Nazis. How could they not think that they're the targets?

Like I said, they didn't do "Nazis we can believe in" did they, they only used one side's slogan.

Paradox Interactive have also ripped off their slogan for their Stellaris campaign, renaming it "Make Space Free Again", and the (sorta) mascot of the game were uber-friendly-to-the-point-of-stalking fungoid species called "Blorgs". And yet no one said that the Paradox's comparing Reps to stalkers, fungus, aliens, or anything like that. The slogan was ripped off and parodied countless times, but this one particular instance, very specifically targeted against Nazis (again, NOT Republicans), is what made Reps angry?! If I was a Rep, I'd be like, "Hmm, they're saying that Nazis are bad, and they're using the slogan of my very Republican president to drive the point? Awesome, fuck Nazis!"

So yeah, there really was nothing beyond "Fuck Nazis" sentiment in the PR slogan; the only reason it ticked Republicans off is their own "reading-too-deep" and persecution syndromes/complexes.

[Yoink]

Anyway, a nice real-life example of the TamerVirus Hypothesis.

Were... were those actual quotes from the guy? O.o


@CABL: what real-world context do "Blorgs" have, though?
Are they a much-maligned historical faction whose name is often used by leftists as an insult directed at people they disagree with?
Not last time I checked.

[Rolan7]

The point is that nothing in "Make America Nazi-Free Again" calls Trump supporters Nazis, just like "Make Space Free Again" doesn't call them Blorg or anti-freedom or anything.

It's really the opposite.  Most people, even Trump supporters, hate Nazis.  Removing Nazis from alternate-universe America would be pretty great.  They're taking offense where there is none, like they're fragile... snowflakes, or something.

And I don't know how to even couch this in sarcasm:  The right's highly-coordinated talking heads use Nazi as an insult for people constantly.  Atheists, socialists, and even feminists are all painted as "Nazis".

[Yoink]

I couldn't really care less about Wolfenstein or the political views of its developers, but I think it's hardly unreasonable to interpret the play on Trump's slogan as an insult to his supporters. 
Saying "oh that's not what was meant, haha look at these total snowflakes interpreting it that way" seems like a bit of a cop-out.


Maybe it's different in the States, but down here the left cheerfully dubs anyone with a remotely conservative (or even centrist) viewpoint a "nazi". 
Like, they'll rock up at wholly unrelated rallies/protests to strike up a chant of "nazi scum off our streets", a phrase which is also featured liberally (no pun intended) on their posters/fliers for just about everything. *shrug*




Edit: oh dang, a new page.
Well, in a new and unrelated WTF that I've been meaning to post, I've used the phrase "come a cropper" since I was a kid without once realising how bizarre it looks in writing.
It wasn't until the other day that I went to use it in a post or comment somewhere and thought, hang on, how do spell that? What does it even actually mean?!

Come to think of it, I never got around to looking into its etymology.