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[ChairmanPoo]

Are you sure? My understanding was that turkish kebap is actually a Wallachian development

[Maximum Spin]

That don't make no sense.

Turks invented doner kebap. Turkish has a word for rotate. Arabs took the kebap and started calling it using the mangled Turkish word.

You're saying Turks call the dish they invented and have a name for using the Arabic rendering of a Turkish word.

Have you heard of a thing called "Islam"? It's quite popular in Turkey, I hear. 

(I'm actually pretty sure that 'shawarma' is middle eastern, but it's totally plausible that Turks would use Arabic...)

[scriver]

Fun fact: kebab is Arabic for roast/ed meat

Are you saying that when the Turks invented kebab they used s an Arab word

Because they did

[wierd]

So.. French Toast and French Fries.  Both are purely American inventions, named for various reasons, "French".

Not quite what you are getting at there, since the specifics dont match-- This is just to lamplight that just because one culture names something, does not mean the name makes the most sense, and that it cannot be innocently ascribed to another, innocent culture. (The French MIGHT have invented something like french toast [given that they are ascribed with the invention of brioche, which ingredient wise, is a similar invention, and the historically disproportionate degree that bread held in the classical French diet], but I doubt they would ever stoop so low in their culinary reputation as to name fried Julianne potatoes after themselves.)

Other such nonsequitor names...

"Scotch Egg" -- Made in London.


I DO get what you are getting at though.  This is like saying the word "Taco" is an American word, appropriated by Mexican culture-- which is just plain silly.

[Tack]

Yeah I assumed it was due to the julienned potatoes.
Which somehow the rest of the world never got their hands on.

[Imic]

French toast and French fries are both old European inventions. The invention of French fries/chips is disputed between France and Belgium, and French toast has existed in some form or another all across Europe since maybe at least 400-500 AD, spread across the continent in a mad spiral of toast. It has more names, too. It’s also called German toast, Bombay toast, Gypsy toast, and several others. Unlike chips, the invenion isn’t disputed, mainly because there are too many people capable of getting involved.

[Kagus]

In places like Norway, French toast is actually called "arme riddere", meaning "poor/pitiable knights".

More fun with kebabs, there's also something called "tacos al pastor", which was (so far as I know) developed when Lebanese immigrants moved to Mexico, and their kids opened up restaurants combining Lebanese heritage with Mexican cuisine. It's basically just döner, but pork instead of lamb and marinated to taste extra tasty.

...And then later the concept migrated to Turkey, where they went back to using lamb (for obvious reasons), and started calling it "Mexican shawarma"...


And then there's that tasty Indian dish called "Manchurians", despite having not a god damn thing to do with either Manchuria or China.

And then there's the Koreans, who completely misunderstood the point of kebap and started trying to sing it.

[Il Palazzo]

Fun fact: kebab is Arabic for roast/ed meat

Are you saying that when the Turks invented kebab they used s an Arab word

Because they did

This conversation is giving me an existential crisis. Somebody either validate my logic or point out where it's flawed.

Kebap is a word in Turkish that is a borrowing from Arabic (or Persian or whatever).
Shawarma is a word in Arabic that is a borrowing from Turkish.
Just like beef is a word in English that is a borrowing from French, and sandwich is a word in French that is a borrowing from English.

Saying:
'I think shawarma is just the word Turks use for kebab. Iirc my wikipedia research yesterday it means "rotate" in Arabic'
is like saying:
'I think sandwich au boeuf is just the expression the English use for beef sandwich. Iirc my wikipedia research yesterday it means "cow meat between two slices of bread" in French'
(in which example the beef sandwich is an English invention)


@wierd You know I love you. But after reading your post a few times I still don't know whether you're agreeing or disagreeing, and with whom.

[Kagus]

Royale with cheese

[wierd]

Palazzo:

I was going after the "Does not make sense" statement you made.  I was pointing out that some real names really and genuinely DO NOT MAKE SENSE.   Eg, "French toast", or "Scotch Egg".   I also mentioned that it was NOT the same thing you were discussing, only tangential, and lamplit that you were more on about the absurdity of saying that Mexicans appropriated the word "taco" from Americans, and that I agree, that is just plain silly.

A bit of devil's advocate, mixed with general agreement that the specifics of this instance are indeed silly.

[scriver]

Fun fact: kebab is Arabic for roast/ed meat

Are you saying that when the Turks invented kebab they used s an Arab word

Because they did

This conversation is giving me an existential crisis.

That's what happens when you immediately leap to the least favourable interpretation in order to be able to make snorky comments like "implying Turks speak Arabic" and feel good about how smart you are

[Il Palazzo]

I've decided I'm going to take away from this only that you said I'm smart. Yes you did, yes you did.

[wierd]

I think you have been caught in Trump's reality distorting local spacetime.  It tends to cause heightened levels of Dunning-Kruger like behavior, especially as relates to one's perception of their intellectual faculties. 

[Il Palazzo]

My smart is the best smart. It's hyuge, like my hands. Everybody says so, even scriver.

[dragdeler]

-snip-