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[Teneb]

I just realized that because of me being able to track my bloodline back to Harald Bluetooth, that makes me able to, if we take the stories as true, track it even further to Hardknot Sigurdsson, his semi-legendary father Sigurd-Worm-In-The-Eye, and his mythical father Ragnar Lodbrok himself.

Which means I can literally track my bloodline back into pre-historic times.

Edit: wrote the wrong patronym, mean sigurdsson, not Ragnarsson

Even putting aside what is pre-history... that's not pre-historic by any definition.

[scriver]

It is pre-historic by the exact definition

[GPeter]

[...]now I want to learn an asian language (Japanese). That makes it incredibly difficult, even though people have been telling me that Japanese is relatively easy.[...]

Nice! I am also a native Portuguese speaker that learned English, is learning Japanese and loves Dwarf Fortress! We should totally, like, hang out or something m8.

Just tell me where you live, and I'll go there to have a bowl of açaí, and discuss DF projects!

[Bumber]

I heave açaí when I am disappointed.

[Teneb]

It is pre-historic by the exact definition

If all of history is history, then there is no pre-history unless you count things that happened before existance existed.

But in any case, the 9th century is not pre-history.

[Criptfeind]

My understanding was that history=we have written records (that we can understand and aren't mythology) and that pre-history=before then. Under this definition pre-history ends and history starts at different times in different places as actually writing factual stuff down on materials that last for long periods of time becomes a thing at different times in different places.

And, afaik, the nordic people that time didn't really leave enough written records about actual events to count as history. Or at least any written records that survived. If I recall we have an oral history that was written down a few hundred years later. Which means for that area pre-history goes surprisingly late at least compared to the rest of Europe.

Maybe though? I'm not a historian, grain of salt for shit you read on the internet.

[Teneb]

My understanding was that history=we have written records (that we can understand and aren't mythology) and that pre-history=before then. Under this definition pre-history ends and history starts at different times in different places as actually writing factual stuff down on materials that last for long periods of time becomes a thing at different times in different places.

And, afaik, the nordic people that time didn't really leave enough written records about actual events to count as history. Or at least any written records that survived. If I recall we have an oral history that was written down a few hundred years later. Which means for that area pre-history goes surprisingly late at least compared to the rest of Europe.

Maybe though? I'm not a historian, grain of salt for shit you read on the internet.

I'm a historian, and written records are not mandatory for it to be history. Oral history is a thing.

The concept of pre-history in general is considered outdated in historiography.

[Rolan7]

But in any case, the 9th century is not pre-history.

The past was called theirstory until the lizards seized the means of means of book production, culminating in them putting a backdoor in the gutenberg press and every printer since.

PC Load Letter is the filter glitching on ideas too close to the truth.

[Criptfeind]

Well, that's cool. TIL I guess.

[Maximum Spin]

I'm a historian, and written records are not mandatory for it to be history. Oral history is a thing.

The concept of pre-history in general is considered outdated in historiography.

"Prehistory" is just a word meaning "before written records in a given area", it doesn't have to be prejudicial. And it's still perfectly current in anthropology and archaeology.

[wierd]

Dont be silly.  PC LOAD LETTER means that the printer thinks it does not have letter size paper in the tray.

What the printer REALLY does to suppress undesirable media being produced with it, is interject unique patterns of light yellow dots into it so that it can tattle on who did the printing, where, and when.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code

We now return to the Lizard Overlord sponsored discussion.

[scriver]

My understanding was that history=we have written records (that we can understand and aren't mythology) and that pre-history=before then. Under this definition pre-history ends and history starts at different times in different places as actually writing factual stuff down on materials that last for long periods of time becomes a thing at different times in different places.

Yes, that is it. Swedish/Nordic pre-history is considered to end as Sweden leaves the iron age and enters medieval times, ca 10th-11th century. It also gets bonus points if the records are a people's own - eg Swedish history do not begin in 100 just because Tacitus wrote a one-liner description of some "suitones" guys in his book on Germanic tribes.

I'm a historian, and written records are not mandatory for it to be history. Oral history is a thing.

The concept of pre-history in general is considered outdated in historiography.

I find that highly conceited.

[TD1]

I'm a historian, and written records are not mandatory for it to be history. Oral history is a thing.

The concept of pre-history in general is considered outdated in historiography.

"Prehistory" is just a word meaning "before written records in a given area", it doesn't have to be prejudicial. And it's still perfectly current in anthropology and archaeology.

It's also a perfectly healthy concept in history, given that I'm "an historian" also. You seem to be assuming that 'Prehistory' means 'absolute lack of sources even oral history'. That's not the case; it's just, as others have said, that the sources available aren't written records.

[Tack]

Wasn't there a thing like 'you eventually either are the common ancestor of every human, or none of them'?
I imagine people like Ragnar who got around (and whose name got their descendants around) probably have a higher shot at it.


Also old topic but I kind of missed the chance to talk about Nazis.

[hector13]

Well your desire to discuss Nazis obviously makes you literally Hitler.

...

I mean it, literally Hitler. Go find a bunker and kill your dog because that makes sense.